Buffalo Rising Online

It is telling that city officials in the 1980s were so desperate for development and felt so bad about Buffalo and themselves, that they allowed prime waterfront property to be devoted a call center, the lowest of low uses for a waterfront.

Our three-story suburban office park on the water should go, to free up the parking lots that are no reserved for call center employees.

Good suggestions, Steel. I would add that the city extending Erie Street and establishing a fine-grained street network long planned, but neve implemented, would finally establish conditions for wide-ranging investment at Erie Basin. Our waterfront is a parking lot, and it could be - at last - a great urban neighborhood.

Chris, Erie street is in the City's planning vision, whether they follow through or not is another question you can see the plans, which were approved by the city, on the Urban Design Project's website here (7 Meg PDF)

Skarnath,

Thanks for catching that Park naming slip. I will fix that. As for the condo prices you ask for. Don't hold your breath. Current construction costs make that pretty much impossible. Also that bison shape that you mention really is true. you can make it out in the first image. It somewhat resembles the Bills logo.

Magnum

HSBC used to have a restaurant / conference center on the top floor. I believe it was for tower employees however. That is were I used to go to get pictures from up there. It is now office space. It is very valuable space so I imagine office space brings in more dough.

A former colleague of mine in Rochester (now moved on to another city) got his master's in planning at UB and did thesis work on that Erie Street project mentioned by sbrof. It's a great project, and very doable. In addition to reestablishing a direct link between downtown and the waterfront, it could establish an important precedent toward reestablishing the Ellicott street plan - an ideal often talked about, but that will always remain an ideal only, until a first step is taken. I wonder what it would take to start that.

BTW, speaking of before and after contrasts, the document mentioned by sbrof has a photo of the working harbor in the first half of the 20th Century - the crowd of buildings and the boats is a jarring contrast to the desolation on water and land of Steel's first picture.

I enjoy reading the comments to articles like these. So many people get their noses out of joint over a commercial building that is being used as a Call Center. What would you think if this same building was housing a law firm or if Cannon design decided to locate their offices there? Same reaction? Probably not.

Why not show some pictures before the Erie Basin and highways were added, just as a comparison.

While you were in the HSBC Center, did you happen to look at the construction pictures by the elevators? The initial pictures are labeled "Waterfront Redevelopment Project, 1973". We have come a long way towards rebuilding the waterfront in these 35 years.

I believe its inthe plan for Erie and/Pearl to connect via a lift bridge to Furhmann Boulevard in the outer Harbor. The sooner that happens the better.

As far as lower priced condos, its going to happen and its going to happen soon but just not where people think. The waterfront village will command the highet prices for the least sqft....and nothing is going to change that! However, that slice of land that everyone is ignoring between the Niagara Expressway and Niagara Street. Thats where your going to see less expensive condo projects playing off of the proximity to the waterfront village while still offering views. WHEN DEVELOPMENT CROSSES THE NIAGARA EXPRESSWAY THEN YOU WILL SEE THOSE DEVELOPMENTS CONNECTED TO WATERFRONT VILLAGE VIA CROSS STREETS UNDER THE EXPRESSWAY: Porter, Jersey, Pennsylvania, Hudson, Maryland, Virginia, Carolina, Georgia, Church, Swan, Seneca, Exchange, Genessee, Eagle, Charles....all streets with potential to reconnect the grid to waterfront village.

Look for developments along 4th, 5th (Lakeview/Trenton), 6th (Busti) and 7th (Columbus).

Oh and yes...thos 3 story call center buildings...are going tohave a short life as buildings go...after the area between the Niagara Expressway and Niagara Street gets built up...these buildings will be priced out of the market and it will be cost effective to replace them with a midrise.....but its going to take decades.....its not going to happen tomorrow.

Remember I said it.....anything between the Niagara Expressway and Niagara Street is where you will see the next phase of waterfront development.

Last thing to consider...if you wanted to really change the dynamic of this area. Reactivate theBeltway to run the light rail and everything along the Niagara Expressway would become light rail accessable (particularly for the area between the Expressway and Niagara Street. Perfect for those less expensive midrise condo towers and rowhouses.

Can we stop with the no public access nonsense? Underutilized LaSalle Park is adjacent to Waterfront Village, the lakeside of the marina to the tower is public access, Hatch to HSBC Arena is accessible, the outer harbor is now accessible. What's the preference? Green along every inch of waterfront so we have unkept and unused greenspace for miles on end? People hate the townhouses- do you prefer towers so then we can here whining about blocking the precious water views from the 190? Waaaahhhh- unaffordable. Buffalo is loaded with affordable housing. Keep building the expensive housing- for some it is Waterfront Village or a patio home in Amherst. Thankfully there is a city option for these buyers. Perhaps we should have kept it like the first photo until we can build a high density utopia - in 2080 when Buffalo's population comes back.

I Have to agree with Platt44. I actually like the mixture of spaces possible with some private access points. The best part of the whole area is at the River Mist development were houses are built directly on the water edge. They add tremendously to the marina environment.

i don't mind buildings to the waters edge but connecting the erie basin marina to lasalle park along the water should have been a priority. You don't need wide swaths of parkland, just a public esplanade at the water. It is a shame how waterfront village excludes public access...even for those who live there. if you don't own a unit right on the water, then you have very limited access to the water. and yes, evey inch of waterfront edge in the city should be public. The days of privitized waterfronts are over...look at chicago, ny, any major city whose waterfront is an asset.

Here is what we need for the waterfront:

- Remove the Sky-way, the route 5 expressway and the Thruway exits along this stretch.

- Rebuild the street grid and divert traffic from the thruway to the surface streets.

- Change the truck routes to either surface streets in this area or the I-290 from the Peace Bridge, keep them out of Buffalo.

- Re-water the Ohio Basin canals to provide another form of commercial transportation (Barge and ship) from Canada to the US, this will open an entire new logistics industry in the city. Imagine boats loaded in Burlington ON and unloaded in Buffalo, this could save transportation companies millions of dollars in fuel and time idling on the Peace Bridge. Just think of the environmental impact, it is staggering.

- Rebuild the DL&W terminal, or build a new train terminal as part of this logistics center.

- Look to the waterfront as the way to avoid the expansion of the Peace Bridge plaza and a way to bring new business to Buffalo.

- we should tear down the call center buildings and use the space for a new convention center. Alternately we could build the convention center as part of the DL&W terminal.

- We must reconnect the street grid, re-water the canals, and remove the nasty highways that have scarred the landscape and disconnected us from the waterfront. Replace the highway with a bike path or electric vehicle causeway that is open exclusively to non-emissions vehicles.

- with these steps in place we could see an expansion of the logistics industry, a reduction in cars and pollution, alternate means of transportation, and could really give the rest of the world something to think about.

I'd rather see highrises than townhouses on the waterfront.

Sally: No disagreement there, but I believe that we could do more to reduce the need for cars in Buffalo.

We have the potential to make Buffalo one of the 'greenest' cities in the US. Imagine the contrast between the pollution billowing Bethlehem Steel plant and a series of pollution free bike / electric car routes, renewable energy windmills, and other environmentally friendly elements.

We would build off the renewable energy of Niagara Falls, build in green parkways for alternate fuel, non-emissions vehicles, public transportation, and bikes.

We have the assets at our doorstep, we just need to make them work for us.

Quijibo, about removing the Rt. 5 expressway, did you happen to catch Esmonde's column on that over the weekend? It's very interesting. Here's a link: http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/406048.html

RaChaCha: Thanks for the link, I agree completely. Now we need to get the NYSDOT on board, that may be a little more challenging.

PaulBuffalo, Bless you for succinctly making the point that we don't need highrises on the waterfront. We need them in the downtown core with the other tall buildings.

Because anything over ten stories looks tall to me. I don't keep count of "skyscapers" here or anywhere else.

There commonly believed myth that tall buildings are bad.

Sony, I agree--a few carefully sited highrises might add some drama to the waterfront. The view of really knockout classic buildings from the marina is terific right now, so you're right--the scale and feel of those buildings are critical.

Because of my dislike for one single highrise project-- the tower at Gates Circle-- I have a rep here as the "highrise hater." In fact, I'd be thrilled to see some visionary build the tallest structure in the world in Buffalo--in the right place of course.

"Nothing for the city?" All this waterfront area does is bring, and keep, high incomes in the city which helps the tax base. This during several decades of a decreasing tax base and flight to the suburbs. I think it's a pretty good mix of public and private uses - you've got plenty of public access to the marina and the parkland along there. I agree that a parking garage would be better than the lots, to free up more space. But it should be noted that those lots look pretty full, and therefore look needed.

Who cares if there's a call center in that building? There's also an design firm as well. Does that make you feel better? I hate to break it to you people but those parking lots are full during the day, and packed during the weekends, so they do need the parking. Would it be a lot cooler if there was a bunch of resturants and stuff down there? Hell yes, but if these companies moved then the same people on this thread would bitch about a vacant building there.

Those massive parking lots would make great sites for some new High-Rises (condo's, offices)

sonyactivision

"I wouldn't object to that building and its wonderful parking lot if they were in Tonawanda but they are a waste of a valuable opportunity to do something inspired at the waterfront. Would you put a Wal Mart in Central Park, Darell? It's parking lot would be "full during the day" too. So do me the favor and don't defend indefensible crap.

Ok, so you're allright with putting something like this on Tonawanda's water front? I'm not advocating parking lots, I'm just saying that these lots are there for a purpose, it's not like the majority of lots in Buffalo. This space is actually getting used. Just look at the above picture. If you have some other grand idea for this land, then lets hear it. Better yet INSPIRE me with your plan. That's a parking lot full of employees, they're not there to see the Irish Famine Memorial.

FYI, some of the tennants of that building have out grown it and have already moved to the burbs.

isn't the i190 an elevated highway? esmonde is an idiot this post proves an elevated highway does NOT block development, maybe polluted old run down steel factories and 0 people willing to make the initial investment that has held the outer harbor up from development

I agree with GDC. We do not need so much parking on the waterfront. Buffalo could easily use one of the parking lots for a high rise. Who cares if we block the view of the low income housing?

C'mon people, we don't need any parking lots on the waterfront because everyone should ride bikes or take the bus to work. Isn't that the "elmwood ideal"?

We should build on Lasalle Park.....views are beautiful. Perfect for condos.

Who uses that park anyway? its a waste of space.....should be put to better use.

Here's a link to a great article about how people in the US are moving back to the citys from the burbs.

http://tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=264510ca-2170-49cd-bad5-a0be122ac1a9

Alan Ehrenhalt, now there is an objective and unbiased source. If you can't get Jane Jacobs, then he is probably the next best thing to further her agenda.

I like sonyactivision's idea for the waterfront. Can we make it happen?

You've gotta watch out for that insidious Jane Jacobs agenda . . .

sonyactivision

Thanks for actually adding a thought out idea.

If you re-read everything I say, I don't "wish" for call centers, but I actually state the FACT that those buildings are in use. That as my point! I'd love to see more housing/restaurants/shops on the water front. I'd also like to see who could afford those properties. Although there is an influx of younger people moving into cities nation wide (http://tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=264510ca-2170-49cd-bad5-a0be122ac1a9 ) , we all know Buffalo is usually a little behind and undervalued.