Buffalo Rising Online

interesting... but if clover has plans for condo's across the street, why do they not follow through with a conversion themelves?

Downtown needs a mix of apartments and condos..ownership will anchor residents downtown . I have noticed more empty nesters moving to be nearer the downtown scene.

This IS very interesting. My thoughts are also...why doesn't Clover themselves do the condo conversion? Ansonia is also being sold as well.....this must make one wonder if Clover is abandoning the idea of additional downtown projects.

Does anyone know what the vacancy rate is in the Sidway? The author is optimistic about Clover not leaving the downtown scene, but up and selling one of the most visible downtown properties seems strange doesnt it? I don't know much about real estate, however, so my thoughts are worth about as much you paid for them.

Perhaps they're anticipating trouble with the upcoming Main St. tearup set to start right in front of that building as Phase 1 of "cars back on Main St" begins?

And what will happen to all the current residents if the switch to condos happens? I suppose they will "encouraged" move out when they receive their next lease and the rent is priced out of their range.

Here's my theory- I haven't heard anything- Sell while the market is hot and use the proceeds to self-finance construction of the condo development.

One of my real estate sources says the asking price is at the high-end but could be enticing for an out-of-town buyer. The pro-forma I saw said zero vacancy.

Didn't Clover use some HOME funds for the puchase/conversion in the first place? Is someone watching to make sure that money is recaptured?

The fact that some units were renting for as little as $411. tells me that some government financing was used to develop this property , that being the case the owner should be forced to not only pay back this funding source but also find these tenants who will be displaced some comparable rental units downtown. However I do believe that what downtown does need is more condo for purchase units in order to make downtown more marketable for major retailers to come into the area.

Conversion of an occupied building is more expensive and time consuming because the landlord/condo sponsor essentially has to offer the apartments to each of the tenant to purchase. Because of past bad acts by landlord/sponsors in NYC, the law tends to be tenant-friendly and can take time for the landlord/sponsor to convert a building. On the other hand, a sponsor can build a building from the ground up or convert an existing vacant warehouse without having to deal with existing tenants. No matter the type of conversion, the sponsor must file legal papers with the NYS Attorney Generalis Office, which also takes time and money (sometimes a lot of money).

Have any other questions in regard to condo/coopis etc. feel free to email me at pquigley@hselaw.com.

Can someone at Buffalo Rising please investigate why Clover is really selling the building? I'd like to belive they are trying to cash in on a good housing market downtown, but am skeptical since the project was finished recently and the building is supposedly renting at capacity. It makes me worry about the future of downtown development and I would love to see a story that makes us all stop speculating and hopefully alleviates some of our worries.

Ironically enough, I had just called this Saturday and inquired about availability. They had one apartment available now and just one more coming up in April. Occupancy is definitely NOT an issue here.

As far as the $411/mo. unit, there were a handful of apartments in which the developer had to set aside as "affordable" due to getting some govt. funds to transofrm the office building to residential.

It's hard for me to understand why someone who is in Buffalo for the long haul would pay a New York City rent of $1900 monthly for a unit in that location (at least that location at the present time). Even if that rent figure includes utilities of, say, $100 monthly, and the unit, were it a condo, might see perhaps $2400 annual real property tax, a credit-worthy borrower could still get a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage loan of about $275,000 for $1600 monthly. That buys a lot in Buffalo. It's a shame there aren't more apartments for sale downtown.

Couple reasons someone might pay the rents: 1> Roommate situations 2> Short term Buffalo stay (out of towners) 3> No commiting to stay in Buffalo 4> Lack (currently) of condo's in the downtown area available to purchase and prefers the location even if they have to rent in the time being.

More reasons to rent rather own:

Landlord is responsible for maintenance on rental units. No homeowners insurance costs. No property taxes. No water/sewer bill. No garbage collection fee.

Understood, Scott and Ben. I began by saying "someone in Buffalo for the long haul," and was reacting to the amount of rent, not the idea or advantages of renting. I still think $1900 is a very high rent for Buffalo, in relation to the amazingly low prices of real estate, still-low interest rates, and the hallowed mortgage-interest/local-property-tax federal income tax deductions. That's all.

Perry, $1900/mo rent in nyc?? Where Where? The arse-end of Queens? More like $4900!! =)

Anyways, if the Sidway remains rental, the prices will surely go down and adjust to the Buffalo market in time. When a major rehab/conversion happens, the building is "hot" and "trendy" for a time. The outrageous prices cover the ower's restoration costs and whatnot. In a few years these units should be more affordable, unless by some miracle, Buffalo real estate catches fire and becomes out of control.

I go something the great Jane Jacobs wrote in her legendary 'The Death And Life of Great American Cities':

Todays luxury housing becomes tomorrow's affordable

Probably showing my age, Gabe. Robert Wagner, Jr. was the mayor of New York when I was a boy there. Thanks a lot!

(Some of the nicest people I know live at the "arse-end" of Queens!)

Seriously, though, I did help my niece not too long ago find a place on York Avenue near New York Hospital/Cornell Medical Center. Small, but a high-floor corner one-bedroom with a terrific view for $2,100.

She could never buy a rat hole in New York for that monthly rent. But at least for the moment, it would buy a spectacular house in Buffalo.

Your observation about the Sidway is probably exactly right.

Very informative comments...as an empty nester I am considering heading downtown in a few years. I would definitely rent at this point in my life. A long term commitment doesn't make sense to most in our age bracket. The only thing holding me back from an immediate move is the lack of amenities..STORES!!!!!!! as in food, supermarkets. Is there life without Wegman"s?

Tiscally -

There is not life without Wegman's. . . well, not completely true, there are the Co-op's where you can get fresh food locally. I once lived in another part of the US where there was no Wegmans, and that was miserable. But now, living in Buffalo, its only a few minutes drive to get to one. Not bad at all. If you live in the 'burbs you still have to drive to stores and malls, no? Why not live downtown and drive from a happier, healthier, hipper apartment in a vibrant growing urban community?

I agree with tiscally ...It would be great if the Wegman's chain would consider a neighborhood size store downtown. One about the size of a typical "Whole Foods Store " would be great .

tiscally - Do you live within walking distance of a Wegman's now? From the Sidway, for example, you could hop on the 33 to the 198, get off at Elmwood, go two blocks to Amherst and be at Wegman's in 5 to 10 minutes I should think. You'd have maybe 4 stop lights and there would be congestion only for a few minutes in the morning and afternoon rush.

I don't mean to be defensive, just to point out that when people say, "there's no _____ downtown" they don't always take into account the fact that there's no ______ within walking distance of their suburban home either.

And of course there's the Co-op, Tops, and Washington Market (albeit the latter is quite limited.)

As a commercial real estate agent, I can tell you that Joseph is very likely selling because he needs to free up capital to get his condo project going. Whoever said it was easier to do a condo. project from the ground-up was right, and Joseph knows that - that's why he will build new and let someone else do what they please with the Sidway. These types do this all the time - I see it everyday. And believe me, judging by the frenzy in my office once we found out - finding a buyer will not be difficult. So no worrying needed - hope that helps.

I live in the city now, and am used to walking, or having a short drive to attain the necessities of life. I am enticed by the idea of living downtown, but being at the age where I sart thinking of conveniences as a necessity, I think downtown needs to provide the supermarkets, drugstores, cleaners, etc. that we all use and take for granted. It would be lovely to spend my "Golden Years" in a great apartment or condo in the heart of the city feeling secure that those needs of an older adult will be met.,,,,,,,and I have never lived in a "Burb" in my life, nor do I intend to....LOL!!!!!!

More reasons to rent rather own:

1. Uncontrolled suburban sprawl declining population = Declining housing values

2. High property taxes

3. High closing costs on a home purchase

4. NO MAINTANCE & Cash to buy the equipment to do the maintance

5.Renting If you donit like it, you can just leave at the end of the lease & it doesnit cost you any thing

6 . Paying a realtor to unload your home for a loss due to reason #1

7. Anyone want to buy my John Deer?

EVEN More reasons to rent rather own:

I see some places are providing a 42i plasma TV & free cable "WoW"

EZ walk or bike to Art, Food, Entertainment & endless things to do in the summer

a whole foods in the city? .................stuff dreams are made of!

living in the city, of course as in any city, not everything is always in walking distance, but even having to drive to a few places, my gas for the jeep is about $10 a month.

The argument about the lack of a Wegmans or any grocery store in downtown is getting pretty tired. As someone pointed out from Sidway or anywhere downtown you can be at the 198& Amherst Street in 5-8 minutes. Choose between Tops or Wegmans there, or walk to Washington Market. I am not sure any one from the burbs that complains about a lack of grocery stores as actually ever walked to one. Better yet just head up to the westside (5-8 minutes) and go to Guercio's or the Co-op.

Are people ignoring the huge Tops store right on Niagara?!!!! They even sell gas! discounted with bonus card!

Of course, how could I forget. Grocery option abound. Now everyone shut up about no grocery stores.

Enough about the food. Were all to fat anyway. Maybe it would be a good thing if the grocery stores were not so convient.