Buffalo Rising Online

Nicollet Mall = not very lively in these images. Are we sure this is a model of good urban design?

The Main Street ped mall in Buffalo has been a disaster for Buffalo starting with the extremely tacky architecture. It did not cause Main Street's collapse but it did hurry it along and is preventing any improvement. With no traffic Main Street is out of sight out of mind. Opening up a 2 cross streets is not going to do anything to revive this as a destination in Buffalo.

Great article! These are great ideas and keeping the discussion moving is key.

Main street should be just what is says- a street. For 100 plus years this "street" thrived with traffic just like every major street in America. Americans like cars and cars like streets. Thats just the way it is. For anyone that thinks that these Pedestrian Malls are so great; try it in Toronto, New York, even south beach in Miami. Those cities would not even allow that concept to be mentioned let alone be put in place. If you are going to spotlight Minneapolis, why don't you spotlight all the cities that had Pedestrian Malls and dismantled them years ago with no regret.

cars on main wont make a difference because people don't go to downtown to shop now any more than they go to Jefferson. It is out of the collective retail mind and businesses are not going to srout up just because they get a couple hundred people driving by a day.

downtown retail needs to be built from the ground up again through residential developments. Bringing money and people to downtown is how to draw businesses, the same process that suburbanizations drew the businesses out of the city to begin with. Anything else is just wishful thinking.

That isn't to say that the pedestrian mall couldn't be a fantastic place without being full of retail. Bridging the divided downtown is a strong start. There is a lot of money and workers on the west half of downtown ins the Erie County buildings that are cut off from Main Street because of the Main Place mall. Drivers need to get close to their location not to it directly. That is an impossible wish if we want to keep our downtown resembling a downtown. Look at all of those pictures.. you see any parking lots? try to find as many streetscapes in our downtown where parking doesn't show its face.. Almost impossible. We have more room to park in downtown than almost any other city. The problem is it isn't managed properly and the dead end / one way streets that were created during the pedestrian mall construction causes problems getting people to the parking that is there.

Great article lets see where it goes from here... and of course the Light rail to UB North is a no brainer. Let people drive a shorter distance and leave their cars in the comfort of UB North to come downtown. Sounds like a win for the Uni, a win for amherst residents, a win for downtown, and a win for students.

I have to disagree with the "people in Buffalo love their cars" argument that is used to promote the idea of returning traffic to Main St. Americans, in general, love their cars. Buffalo is no different. With the exception of the residents of a few very large and very urban cities Americans own and drive their own cars. This may change in the future but for now it is the case.

Pedestrian malls have worked in some cities and not in others. Buffalo's isn't particularly attractive and has little to offer but putting cars on Main doesn't solve that. When was the last time someone told you that they would go downtown except they skip it because they can't drive/park on Main St? When was the last time you were caught in a traffic jam on Franklin because cars couldn't drive on Main? Think about it.

While I wouldn't promote taking cars off Main if the decision were being made toda, I don't think that putting them back is the right move. Spend the money on improving what we have and not on the waste of time and money that putting cars back on Main will amount to being.

Dan's post has some great suggestions on how the money can be better spent.

Compare the carless portion of Main St south of Edward to the same portion of Delaware Ave, 3 blocks west of Main. That part of Delaware is more alive and successful than the same part of Main. Coincidence that one has car traffic and the other doesn't? Doubtful.

The pedestrian mall here is a desolate flop. It's almost surprising anybody defends it so strongly as this author. If Minneapolis has better luck with the same idea, great for them. There's many variables. Most cities who tried pedestrian malls have had bad results.

Restoring car traffic of course won't be a silver bullet for Main St, and I haven't heard anybody serious claim it will be. There's many reasons for Main St.'s decline.

This isn't all about retail. As Bini said, future retail on Main will be small compared to the burbs, or even compared to more population-dense healthy parts of the city such as North Bflo and Elmwood. A reasonable goal for that part of Main St eventually would be to have a mix of retail and non-retail activity similar to what that part of Delaware now has. That would be a step up, and even that won't happen without car traffic to allow easier access and let a flow of people in cars actually see the businesses. What will this accomplish for the city as a whole? Not a whole lot, but it will enliven an embarrassingly dead looking part of a major street and undo a big mistake.

Strom, Miami has an extremely successful pedestrian mall on Lincoln Rd. It is a main shopping street that was in decline. Today it thrives, in large part because of the pedestrian mall and the fact that it was done right. It has plenty of landscaping, art and is generally inviting. Miami's weather helps a lot but our mall could be much better than it is if it followed some of the design elements of Lincoln Rd.

LOL ..Look at the throngs of people in those photos walking down Nicolette Mall, Sort of like Times Square. Get Real, It's one step from being as desolate as Main Street. Been there. Downtown Minneapolis is not a model for a vibrant urban core. Think New York, Boston , Chicago, San Fran, Philadelphia, and DC. The latter two tore out their desolate pedestrian Malls which had been flanked by decimated Retai (dollar stores) and vacant store fronts into chic urban venues ... WITH CARS.

Especially in Buffalo I would think that the skyway underground connector would be a no-brainer. Has anyone checked out Montreals underground area? Its not taking people off of the streets but more about giving people the convenience of not having to walk out into a blizzard to grab a cup of coffee etc. I would much rather see the money alotted for bringing traffic back on main go towards reconnecting key streets such as genesee and eagle and creating a better skywalk system for downtown residents and workers. Better signage on main st and downtown in general could also do wonders for the pedestrian mall for visitors to our city as it is now there are still signs guiding people to main street for shopping LOL

"Compare the carless portion of Main St south of Edward to the same portion of Delaware Ave, 3 blocks west of Main. That part of Delaware is more alive and successful than the same part of Main. Coincidence that one has car traffic and the other doesn't? Doubtful."

ok now go one, two or three blocks east to Michigan... full of cars and and still no life. Coincidence?

Certainly alot cleaner and more modern than downtown Buffalo, wish the Main Place Mall would do an upgrade in it's apperence (inside and out). I do believe that re-opening Main Street, continue to bring residence back downtown, and more investment in the area (restorations, new builts, etc.) that Retail will follow (we just got the Jenny Shop and next month a new Men's Shop) as they are already popping up.

sbrof - As I said "There's many reasons for Main St.'s decline". Car traffic is only one.

ok now go one, two or three blocks east to Michigan... full of cars and and still no life. Coincidence?

There's many differences between Michigan Ave and Delaware Ave. Of those three streets, it looks clear to me that trying to make as realistically close as possible an apples-to-apples comparison would consider the set of non-traffic factors (building types, etc.) that are along Main and along Delaware to be much more similar to each other than comparing either of those to Michigan Ave.

Actually Louise, I think it is a complete coincidence and has nothing to do with cars. Delaware Avenue has always been worlds apart from Main Street. As the two streets begin to diverge on their way out of downtown Delaware Avenue is the spine of the high end residential core. The stores have been higher end and the residences grand. Main Street doesn't have that same character and never has. At the turn of the last century Delaware Avenue was listed as one of the five grandest streets in America. Main was, well, Main.

Main Street retail in the downtown core was comprised of department stores. Those stores closed with the shift of american buying habits and the rise of the suburban shopping mall. That was exacerbated by the death of the locally owned department store and industry consolidation.

Putting cars on Main does nothing to change that. It doesn't add parking and it does absolutely nothing to make the area a more pleasing place to be. It just gives one more street full of empty storefronts to drive down.

I also believed that this is really ill timed. If Canalside is a success then the city should concentrate on bleeding some of that business up Main Street by making the area more inviting. That means green space, entertainment and residential. Where people go, retail will follow. Cars are not vital to that mix especially given that you can drive up and down all you want one block off of Main.

Texpat - It's Louse. Yes, same point as with my reply to Sbrof, I agree Main and Delaware aren't exactly the same, never said they were, but they have relevant similarities. That and fact that decline of Main St is so stark to what we see in pictures from before the ped mall, that my guess is with cars Main St has a chance to get some more vibrancy than it has now. A closer level of aliveness such as Delaware's could be in reach, although for reasons you point out it might not recover to Delaware's level.

How important it is to Buffalo that downtown Main St become more alive is arguable, but I disagree that anything other than car traffic could fill in nearly as much of Main St's empty storefronts as car traffic might. Most won't be filled with retail even with cars, but I don't think most will fill with anything if cars are prohibited in the long term.

To me the choice is between accepting Main St's current emptiness or bringing back car traffic. The Canalside impact on Main (if any, and I'm not a fan of Canalside but won't get into that here) will be only way down toward the southmost part of Main near the Aud. Nothing to do with most of the ped mall blocks.

It doesn't add parking and it does absolutely nothing to make the area a more pleasing place to be.

We'll agree to disagree about whether car traffic in general makes a commercial block a 'more pleasing place to be'. To me it does, and to you it doesn't. Let's try removing car traffic from any block of your choosing on Elmwood for one year and see what happens to that block.

Hi Louise, we'll agree to disagree but I'd like to thank you for the civility of the discourse.

Returning cars to Main St. is far less important than getting people to live on Main St.

"Returning cars to Main St. is far less important than getting people to live on Main St." and 50 million dollars could go a LONG way to filling the gap and bringing i would guess another half dozen buildings into fiscal reality.

The three main factors that drive any retail development are visibility, critical mass and demographics. Main Street, Buffalo has none of this to its favor in its current state.

The current push for new, upscal housing will change the demographics a bit, but not enough to warrent large retail developments, which brings in the next factor, critical mass. We need many more people to live, work and play downtown to create an area attractive to retail.

Now, if you don't know a place is there, how would you know to visit it. Cars on Main Street can help to cure the visibility problem. This is the only reason to open up Main Street to cars, and an important one.

Cure these three problems, and you will see retail in downtown.

Cities need hustle and bustle, noise and traffic. Will cars single-handedly revive Main street, of course not, but having three levels of traffic, pedestrian, auto and light rail could not hurt the street as they all can provide the critical mass needed to return the area to a semblance of life. Let's not start putting in greenery and other amenities that work on elmwood and other areas, Main street has the fabric, it should be the Main street of the city, one truly urban street. The city lacks depth, yet the street that's most developed for retail and an urban focus is nearly abandonded. If the city is to bring back urban dwellers, then the most urban of streets should function in that fashion.

it takes 12 minutes to go 5 miles from Allen-Medical Campus to UB South, North campus is a straight shop 3 miles away, It would take no longer than 10 minutes, probably less if you didn't put in any stations initially. That would connect students to downtown in probably 20 minutes.

They take the bus to south campus 15 minutes, and walk another 5 - 10 to the bars on Main. I guarantee that many students would take it downtown to get into the action of Chippewa.

Having cars with the trains and bike lanes will most definitely bring more life to Main Street at all hours. I've walked down Main Street after hours and quiet weekends to hear NOTHING but the wind, so alittle auto traffic would make a difference. With the growing population of residence and new businesses, Retail shall follow along with the Waterfront Developments. Remember, if Bass Pro opens up, it shall lead a trend of other big Retailers to move in to the area and start a "Destination" of retail again. Main street has the potential and space for retail again, mixed in with unique cafe's and restaurants, it's only a matter of time and investments.

Couple of points I would like to make....1) People keep talking about how the light rail is needed to connect UB Amherst to downtown...well, as a UB student I can tell you that the vast majority of students (just look at their parking lots) have cars or are friends with someone who has a car, UB students are not in desperate need of public transportation to get downtown. Plenty of them do so without the light rail on saturday nights at Chipewa. 2) YES cars are needed on main street. Maybe if you live in the city you know of main street, but people who live in the suburbs and come to the city know of delaware and elmwood and can easily drive there. No one from Orchard Park is going to drive a nigth to some small side street, park, and walk around a desolate street like main street is now just because a retail store was opened there or because some new trees were planted. 3) Most of the city people who do not have a car do not have so because they can not afford one...these people are not going to be spending alot of money in retail shops on Main, if that was not the case then the main place mall should be booming right now with business. 4) Buffalo like the vast majority of cities in this country are car cities....people in much larger cities like chicago and LA use cars to get around, its a fact of life and its no coincedence that Main is dead because there is no traffic, try walking down Main street by yourself at 1 AM...its dead and preety darn scary. If there was traffic cars would be driving up and down and business would open up. One of the selling points of retail store locations is the car traffic, it equals visibility. There is no visibility on Main street, if you do not already happen to know of business there you are not just going to find out about it by driving by. Someone can open a store on Elmowood and people will see it when they go by. Also, living on mains street. Opening up Main to cars won't solve all its problems, its just one step of many others...but it is one step that will need to be taken. Maybe when buffalo's population is 1 million people then we can think about closing off streets to traffic.

yes...chuck $50 mill to reopen it cars so it can thrive like the rest of Main St. North of it ;) there's enough room for cars as is. Just allow cars (police, shuttles, lost people are routinly dirving down it already). Allow only right hand turns off of it and no-standing. See what happens initially and then decide to move forward with dedicated car lanes/drop off cutouts etc.

I still personally feel the bigger bang for the buck would be applying the money to tax-breaks/gap-financing etc for new build/rehab mixed use with hidden self contained parking along the current setup. At the end we would have more people down there. Also to removing the current stops for more useful, more transparent stops. At the end of this plan our only certainty is that cars will be allowed to drive past the empty buildings/40 year old shovel ready lots

From Billo:

" while downtown parking is scarce and needs to be addressed"

Are you high? Buffalo is MORE THAN 50% SURFACE PARKING. That's rediculous for a city.

I cannot take the time to skim all the posts but as long as Mayor Brown and the Common Council of Buffalo feel that everyone who comes downtown should have to pay a parking fee or parking ticket for the privilege of visiting an empty city center then downtown will remain empty. The stores and restaurants did not close because they wanted to disappoint customers standing in line at their doors but they closed when there were no customers. I lived for over twenty years on the border of downtown and watched the change from 1980 on. The only growth industry downtown was parking enforcement. This downtown is so barren that it cannot even support a fast food outlet anymore. Shopping and dining are usually personal social events and it is too bad the city leaders think that you should pay for that event. Tax breaks for the merchants are not going to work either. If you doubt these sentiments then ask one of the malls in the suburbs to institute a parking fee and fines for their parking lots.

Is the problem the availability of parking or the fact you must pay for it? It certainly isn't free in most North American cities. It is incredibly expensive to park in Toronto, but people pay and retail is successful. The same is true for most cities. People will pay to park if the area has something worthwhile. I agree that it can be a deterrent for some, but there is too much being made of this. People don't go downtown to shop because there is nothing there, not because they can't find a place to park or they have to pay $1.00. Hopefully, more and more people will move closer to downtown and there will be success with the Inner Harbor Project. Retailers don't spend millions of dollars investing in an area because they want to help the region. They do it to make money and if they don't believe the investment is worth it, they won't open a store. Although parking is one component, Buffalo has enough to sustain retail. What it doesn't have is a the critical mass downtown.