Rock Harbor Commons @ Rock Harbor Village


The ecologically friendly and safe student environment will incorporate a blending of art, history, nature and social activities. The twenty-two acres of land, located at 31 Tonawanda Street between Niagara Street and Amherst Street, is situated at the terminus of the Scajaquada Creek. This is where Ed is planning on hosting outdoor festivals that will take advantage of the natural and historic surroundings. Students will one day be able to walk out outside and decide whether they want to bike the neighboring creek-side trail or kayak/canoe out to the Black Rock Channel. Rock Harbor Village is centrally located in-between myriad colleges and a university. The site is mere minutes from Buffalo State College, University at Buffalo, D'Youville, Canisius College, ECC and just happens to be situated at an on and off ramp to the Scajaquada Expressway.
Sources say that there are currently upwards of 6000 students who are looking for places to live in WNY. Student living quarters will consist of apartment style lofts that will be available for occupants to either rent or purchase. Ownership of these units will be attractive to parents who are looking to invest in real estate close to college campuses. The existing three buildings found on site will be rehabbed and retrofitted to fit the future plans.
Phase 1 of the project is scheduled to go before the planning board in a matter of days. This project is looking for public support - there will be a public hearing on May 21st (Room 201). Ed knows how hard it is for people to take time off from work to show their support for projects, so he is looking for input on this site that he can take along with him. So what are your thoughts?
Side note: The rendering and schematic are not current and are presently being reworked to include existing architectural elements. We should have an updated set of drawings soon.

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GDC
This sounds HOTTT!!!! Would be great to see this part of town be a new "Hot Spot" in town, the more choices, the better.
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GDC
This sounds HOTTT!!!! Would be great to see this part of town be a new "Hot Spot" in town, the more choices, the better.
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stephenjames716
looks very exciting...
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platt4
Interesting project in a highly visible location. One suggestion is to re-think the design of Phase II. Windows need to be much larger, right now it looks like a parking ramp. Go for it.
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DJB
This plan looks like a great idea and appears to be marketed toward the right demographic. If I was a student, I would certainly want to live in this location compared to the options available elsewhere. Good luck with the project.
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SkaJack
Down wind of Squaw Island???
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TownLine
Being fickle, but how about dropping "Village" from the name. It seems to be a bit overused.
I'm not quite able to picture that piece of Niagara Street right now. What is the building infrastructure like right now to accommodate additional retail and residential development
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GDC
Instead of a massive parking lot, how about a parking ramp as this project sounds like it'll eventually grow and need more parking anyways. PLUS, you can some of the first floor of a ramp for future uses such another cafe, restaurants, etc. .Just my thought.
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PaulBuffalo
Will this be on the site of the former Fedder's air conditiioning complex? Are any buildings being reused? Isn't there a bit of cobblestone street left in this area?
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mjman4
intriquing idea...but having been a student and living both on and off campus, the reason one chooses to live off campus in most cases is so that they can be close to an "interesting" environment that is not provided by the institution. This just seem like a walled compound with a shuttle bus on a brownfield site. Also that area actually SUCKS for pedestrian traffic.
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flyguy
Theres actually a bike/ped trailway running along the Scajaquada back there. It connects Tonawanda Street to the Tops over there at Grant and Amherst. Nice to see this trailway get some complementary development ideally creating a safer area for bike/ped as well with more activity.
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completelyoverplayed
Is part of the appeal here that Canada still has a lower drinking age than the US? Or are they at 21 now too?
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sbrof
calling a parking lot 'green' is hypocritical. It wouldn't matter if the cars parked in the middle of the woods. It isn't green to require highways, promote the spread out nature of an automobile society, build such huge machines to move individual people, leak oils and random fluids into the earth etc etc.. All outside of the current emissions from the tailpipe.
Outside of that and the fact you can't rule out the current necessity of the car, this is still a very good idea and an interesting location. This stretch of Tonawanda Street is very open and has a couple really interesting industrial buildings left standing. Most have been torn down at this point.
It is close to Black Rock's businesses just up Niagara by Amherst street but unfortunately there isn't a lot of built infrastructure around there to house new spin off developments. Most things would have to be new construction.
The amenities of this are would be rather nice also. Squaw Island park is near here, Riverside Park is just up the street with the whole of the Riverwalk and Delaware park bike paths intersecting right here also. It would also be nice to infuse a little investment between Black Rock and the Upper West Side to help stabilize areas north. Many problems in both these areas are from people coming north from the west side to cause trouble.
Will like to watch to see if this has any legs. They will need to do a fair amount of research to convince students to move farther from campus than they would normally. Remember students are lazy and want to role out of bed 10 minutes before class starts. To bring them away from campus and their current locations isn't impossible but you need to market it properly and give them the amenities they desire to make it worth the commute.
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Monorail
This will never work. Students who live off-campus usually want to live in exciting surroundings within walking distance to their school and/or cool retail and social amenities. This location is isolated in the middle of industrial desolation.
Also, there are plenty of viable neighborhoods that could use these students, building a this brand new "compound' on a brownfield seems silly in a city already overburdened with so much cheap housing.
Perhaps this developer needs to develop a better understand of college students.
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flyguy
Does west avenue currently exist? Im not totally familiar with that road? Is this currently blocked off? I dont remember a road connecting Tonawanda Street and Forest as shown. Is there a bridge there now? Nice either way. I look forward to seineg this area come around. This is the type of development that can boost blackrock/riverside, an area I think in the city that is not lost but does need some love. The area still exhibits many qualities of a dense urban neighborhood and has not yet been totally ravaged by crime, arson, demolition, absentee landlords and or crappy tenants who beat on the properties.
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PaulBuffalo
This is not a neighborhood. It's at the conjunction of a railroad bridge and a Scajaquada exit. The drawing doesn't even show the expressway passing overhead to the right of the red brick building. A porn store, Squaw Island Park and The Sportsman bar are within walking distance -- isn't that an eclectic mix -- but Tops is a 30-minute walk. Riverside Park is at least a 30-minute walk. Burger King is a 30-minute walk. Unless millions of dollars are going here to create a neighborhood, this is not a place I would ever choose to live.
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blackrocklifer
This would be great for our neighborhood and we would welcome this project. The potential for spinoff developement is real and doable unlike the proposed ambassador bridge which would destroy the livability of the entire area.
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GDC
I believe this CAN work, Think about it. A mixture of housing, retail, eateries, and entertainment. Re-use of other buildings in the area (just mentioned on this site recently about two old warehouses being converted into housing and office along Niagara Street). An interest in this part of town is no secret now, I do think it'll work and take time to get more and more involved, but this is a great start. Look at the Cobblestone District, or Chippewa Street, Who would have Thought untill someone took an interest?
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impressingagent
wonderful design and combination of ideas but for me the location makes no sense. Its like putting an in ground pool underneath some power lines. I love the potential for growth on Niagara street, however a project like this deserves more viability.
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reflip
If this happens, I'm guessing they are going to use the semi-isolation as a marketing tool. They specifically mentioned going after those parents who buy living spaces for their kids in college as opposed to paying for rent. If that is the case, it sounds like they're going to position themselves as self-contained, "safe" city living for college students with access to nature for those shaggy haired, granola types who aren't quite boho enough for existing city neighborhoods. Or, at least, whose parents won't pay for them to live in existing neighborhoods because of safety concerns. It's seems to be looking at a market niche that is directly between on-campus and off-campus. All the safety and sterily of on-campus housing, but off campus! But I'm no marketer - perhaps the demand is there.
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ExWNYer
I am having a hard time envisioning where this is located exactly. What is a nearby address I can use to map it?
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icecreamsub
point of reference..north of Campbell's Tavern ...just south of Tee Tu Green driving range
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Monorail
I think it's also laughable to plan around parents being able to buy personal collegiate condo-dorms for their kids. Usually the mortgage payment on the parents house is enough to juggle.
At schools like BuffState and UB, often students are working full-time to pay tuition and student loans their parents can't afford to pay for them. That's why so many cash-strapped college students still live at home w/mommy and daddy in the burbs. This is the reality for most commuter students.
Finally, this post is lacking in a lot of critical information. How much would these units go for? What some are estimates on the total project cost? Will Ed be looking for some sort of public $$ to help finance this? How does a sketchy plan for sex-offender housing suddenly morph into some sort of grandiose student housing complex?
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impressingagent
instead of developing over brownfields and selling eco-friendly living, why not take on added expense to properly implement this plan for its real purpose? I don't see how this project can be anything but a mixed-use revitalization project for the aesthetics of a community? Not some self contained gilligans island, but a real community jump starter. Northeastern university does an amazing job at bringing the college/student campus to the street. I would like to see a project that would increase property value and the place with the most potential for impact is grant and forest. I have driven through here on my segway and its evident that the college might be some where, it's just not on this corner. To create an exciting use of space would increase the demand placed on revitalizing grant street and take some of the pressure from whatever is supose to go on at forest and elmwood. They could redevelop the Wilson Farms block and build a connecting bridge across grant (similar to the original plans). perhaps build a fair sized parking garage on the corner of rees and forest and connect that with a bridge. It just seems like the businesses and the empty land would not hold back a project that would bring 300 beds. This project could find a way to accommodate the businesses they would be building over.The key here is street presence and no longer something for nothing.
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Metropolis
First off, BRO doesn't tell you that Ed Hogle already owns much of this plot of land (Viking steel) so he is capatalizing on his own asset, as well as trying to improve the value of his property around that. That's not a negative - can't fault the guy for trying to make a profit on his land that he's been trying to sell and can't - but BRO reporting half of a story makes the location seem odd.
Regardless, I think the location is good. Think about it - students live in apartments on UB North Campus, they live way out in Williamsville, some commute from their homes, many live all over the city (Elmwood, Allentown, downtown). If you give the students the opportunity t o live in the city within walking distance to Buff State and a very quick commute to other colleges, along with mixed use entertainment/restaurant within. Niagara Street is ripe for reuse. This could be a catalyst for future large developments, as well as spin-off of reuse of other residential buildings in the Black Rock / Amherst area.
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BuffaloItalianGuy
Here's an overhead map that shows how the buildings currently look.
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BuffaloSTATEcollege2011
First off I must comment on all those who have posted negatively on this project. I am a Buffalo State student and honestly cannot wait for this project to unfold. Buff State has a HUGE on campus housing shortage and countless amounts of students (hundreds) must now find their own source of housing. This location is ideal, especially as the campus is expanding westward in the direction of this development (referring to the planned new Buffalo State Stadium across Grant St. from Houston gym/ Buckham Campus School). Another thing that I must address is that students do not decide where they are going to live based on whether or not the area is "interesting" or not! students base their decision on affordability and location in respects to campus. If the area is "interesting" then thats a bonus!
This location is minutes from Buffalo State, and is extremely close to major highways...so this project has followed the basic concept of real estate which is LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!!! The developer, Mr. Hogle, should be applauded for his efforts for this project is not only adding new life to a decaying plot of land, but is also making much needed housing avaiable to many students.
And although I respect the views of all the posters on this site, I must disagree with several comments! @Monorail: Thousands of students that attend Buffalo State and countless local colleges, do so because their parents pay for tuition and room/board. Countless parents pay to have their students stay in apartments and other sorts of off-campus housing...so why wouldnt this location recieve the same kind of attention from parents looking to house their children close to school!? It would! @PaulBuffalo: Maybe this location seems to be a deolate location now, but the developer has many forms on entertainment planned. Not to mention, the location is going to be serviced by a shuttle. Buffalo State is serviced by an express shuttle that runs from important locations on campus to Tops (on Grant) and then to Wegmans (on Amherst), so it is factual that someone residing in this new development could easily reach Tops/ BK/ Wegmans in less than 10 minutes by bus. Not to mention, but an increasing amount of student now have their own vechicles, so many shopping locations are really only 5 minutes away by car.
It may not be my place to say this but it seems this website is plagued by to many pecimistic people. Any new development creates a new source of tax revenue for the city. Those who dis-like the projects/plans that are brought to light by this website should stop complaining! If you think you can do it better, become a developer yourself! The people that design the projects you see on this website arent stupid, it's their money on the line in these projects! Even if some of the projects do recieve public assistance, a large portion of the funding is from the developers own funds.
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BuffaloSTATEcollege2011
First off I must comment on all those who have posted negatively on this project. I am a Buffalo State student and honestly cannot wait for this project to unfold. Buff State has a HUGE on campus housing shortage and countless amounts of students (hundreds) must now find their own source of housing. This location is ideal, especially as the campus is expanding westward in the direction of this development (referring to the planned new Buffalo State Stadium across Grant St. from Houston gym/ Buckham Campus School). Another thing that I must address is that students do not decide where they are going to live based on whether or not the area is "interesting" or not! students base their decision on affordability and location in respects to campus. If the area is "interesting" then thats a bonus!
This location is minutes from Buffalo State, and is extremely close to major highways...so this project has followed the basic concept of real estate which is LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!!! The developer, Mr. Hogle, should be applauded for his efforts for this project is not only adding new life to a decaying plot of land, but is also making much needed housing avaiable to many students.
And although I respect the views of all the posters on this site, I must disagree with several comments! @Monorail: Thousands of students that attend Buffalo State and countless local colleges, do so because their parents pay for tuition and room/board. Countless parents pay to have their students stay in apartments and other sorts of off-campus housing...so why wouldnt this location recieve the same kind of attention from parents looking to house their children close to school!? It would! @PaulBuffalo: Maybe this location seems to be a deolate location now, but the developer has many forms on entertainment planned. Not to mention, the location is going to be serviced by a shuttle. Buffalo State is serviced by an express shuttle that runs from important locations on campus to Tops (on Grant) and then to Wegmans (on Amherst), so it is factual that someone residing in this new development could easily reach Tops/ BK/ Wegmans in less than 10 minutes by bus. Not to mention, but an increasing amount of student now have their own vechicles, so many shopping locations are really only 5 minutes away by car.
It may not be my place to say this but it seems this website is plagued by to many pecimistic people. Any new development creates a new source of tax revenue for the city. Those who dis-like the projects/plans that are brought to light by this website should stop complaining! If you think you can do it better, become a developer yourself! The people that design the projects you see on this website arent stupid, it's their money on the line in these projects! Even if some of the projects do recieve public assistance, a large portion of the funding is from the developers own funds.
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impressingagent
perhaps some of the proposal gives reason to be pessimistic? i have spent plenty of recent years at buffalo state and i don't see the connection. The buildings would be a nice way to get out of the indstural time slot, i just don't see how the proposal carrys as much apipitude because of the location.
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PaulBuffalo
BuffaloSTATEcollege2011, I appreciate your passion on this subject and agree with you regarding the need for additional student housing. This project may be a solution. My only point is that this is currently a very desolate and unsafe area that will require millions of dollars, including infrastructure improvements by the City, to make it a comforting and safe environment providing basic amenities.
You mentioned above that the developer has many forms of entertainment planned. I would be interested to read details about this aspect of the project, too, because it helps provide a fuller understanding of the developer's commitment. Having grown up in this neighborhood, I would be glad to see the project succeed because this intersection has always been the void separating Riverside/Black Rock from the rest of the city. I was glad to read your comments. Thank you.
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Monorail
BSC2011,
I appreciate your enthusiasm for off-campus housing and development in Buffalo. But, there is plenty of reason to be pessimistic and suspicion here. If you don't already know, Buffalo has a long history of glossy, grandiose development proposals, only to fall flat when the developer finds out he can't get a free ride with public subsidies or other incentives.
Just check a few posts back at the not so good news about that Bethune Hall building on Main St. It falls in line with a common pattern seen with these sorts of far-fetched development ideas:
Little-known developer with no known record of project completion or access to substantial credit waltzes in on a white horse and buys up a forgotten property in a derelict location few people give a crap about. Said developer promises some grand plan with every bell and whistle that sounds too good to be true (we all know the rule there). Property sits a year or two, then developer tries flipping it at an enormous markup without making much of any physical improvements to the property.
It's call the olhype n' flip and depressed real-estate markets like Buffalo are prone to these sorts of things. It won't be too long before this guy starts either A. asking for some sort of public handouts or B. Tries flipping the property at a price way above what he bought it at. He didn't get his way with his sex-offender housing proposal, so this looks like a last ditch attempt to drum up some hype for this otherwise forgotten chunk of land.
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STEEL
Too bad the site plan pretty much ignores that fact that the creek is right there with great access to the Niagara River. Very short sighted. It should have a dock and board walk. Perhaps they should spend less time on the silly clock tower.
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Colin
Taking students out of actual neighborhoods and puttig them into what amounts to an off-campus dorm would be a win for the developer but a loss for the city.
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GDC
I don't see how this would be a loss for the city, when this would still be in the city. Giving the students exposure to more than just the dorm life.
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BuffaloSTATEcollege2011
@Monorail and @PaulBuffalo: Thank you for your perspectives, there are some thing even I hadnt realized about this project. Im kinda new to Buffalo, so Im not to keen with the history of project failures here! Thank you guys for remaining civil even though our views may have differed :) I just love this city and wish the best for it!
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magnum
What does Buff state say about this? If housing is in such shortage, why aren't they building dorms? They have plenty of property. I really question this 6,000 students need housing number.
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magnum
OK,did a little digging. BuffaloNews reported on April 4th that Buff state will be building Dorms.
Buffalo State drops plan for off-campus housing in favor of new dorms By Sharon Linstedt - News Business Reporter Updated: 04/04/08 10:31 AM
Buffalo State College has scuttled its plans to partner with private developers to create off-campus student housing, and is instead planning to build new dorms on campus.
The college, which last November issued a request for proposals for off-campus apartments to help ease its on-campus housing shortage, fielded plans from nine developers. Those proposals ran the gamut from existing industrial buildings to new-build facilities, and ranged from parcels adjacent to the Buffalo State campus to a site nearly a mile from the Elmwood Avenue school.
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pier1sailing
What a great vision, I hope the City of Buffalo will make its part and create the street scape, the beautification and the transportation options that are necessary.
Scajaquada Creek Village would be a great name, obviously since you are located just next to what makes you unique!
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