Buffalo Rising Online

This is stone cold awesome news - although I'm going to miss the I-beam concert seating!

Is that impound lot the one on Dart Street, where the old railroad spur crosses Scajaquada Creek on the little bridge into the Rock Harbor grounds - and across the bike path? There could be a cool opportunity there to create another link between the bike path and Buff State.

This project will dovetail very well with the new interest in Black Rock. Things are starting to happen here and people are taking notice of the history, architecture, and location of the oldest intact neighborhood in Buffalo. We welcome this positive developement and hope it will attract more investment to our under appreciated area.

Thank god.... This part of the city needs a little spit shine and wax

The renovation renderings look ridiculous.

Why would the developer not understand the gritty appeal of the original industrial building? The appeal of the original surpasses this Disney-fication... I hope the developer reconsiders these do-dads, silly cornices, and wildly inappropriate fake roofs, so a very fine and very rustic industrial structure does not look like a three-story Williamsville shopping plaza, circa 1965.

The building is very cool, very very cool, as is. If the building stays true to its character, it will have much broader appeal to the student population.

great project! I look forward to the life and people that this could potentially draw to T-street! BR and Riverside need some love and I am happy to see it starting here with some of the coolest old buildings in the place.

What can't Jim's Steakout do????

new bars will hopefully open too!

Great concept...but I second what Chris Hawley said- That isn't the Seine River flowing over there.

Can a developer really create a student only residence? Didn't a similar plan run into trouble in Cleve Hill recently?

chris-I agree the design should play on the strength of what is already a cool building but I am not sure the it would appeal to the middle class students and parents that are needed to make it work. And renderings seldom represent what is eventually built so don't get too upset, this is a great idea and could make a huge impact on the area.

Yes Great News!

Blackrocklifer, this is a great idea, no doubt.

I wouldn't underestimate the sophistication of the young middle class. If they were not yearning for industrial chic and an escape from the suburban homogeneity that this lackluster redesign represents, IS Lofts and Holling Place would be empty. The developer would save some dough if he simply brushed up what's already there, and didn't try so hard to make the building something it isn't - and shouldn't be!

Is the owner ashamed this is a stark industrial building? Does he not realize that's what's hip these days? Why so behind the times?

Build it!!

Thinking back to my college days and the dorm experience, I'm not sure I would be sold on this project. First, the rooms as depicted in the rendering seem much smaller. But, the generous amounts in bathroom facilities is a big plus. As a student, I would want dibs on the first floor room. As a parent, I would find Black Rock a very tough sale. When I think of the stereotypical blue collar, lower wage neighborhood, I think of BR: modest, affordable homes for that population. It is hard for me to think of it as an intellectual environment in any way. It's not that I don't want that community to miss out on a transformation. But this person has always thought of BR as almost anti-intellectual.

Industrial chic can be found almost anywhere in the city. It's a great building in proximity to the state campus with some great views in the right windows, but it is not my idea of a suitable location for any of my own college age kids.

Call me narrow minded and anti-progressive if you will. But I think I am voicing concerns (be they legitimate or not) that parents are likely to express as this moves forward.

Isnit anyone wondering where Howard was/is?

Why isnt Howard exandind Buffalo State?

Why is she refusing 10,000 students per year?

pegger, I think you summed it up well when you said "legitimate or not." Why would BR not be a good place for student housing, anti-intellectual? Really? Are these people here somehow dumber than the rest of the city. ALL of Buffalo is or at least was a blue collar town. To think that is somehow a bad thing, that should be hidden from our youth, is lying about our city and ourselves. Everyone around here has family that is or was blue collar. Fact of life if you are from Buffalo.

Hard working people who are trying to make a good life for themselves and their families is exactly what students should be exposed to. Not everyone is handed a pretty corvet on their 16th birthday on a pleasant cul de sac, and by thinking that we should shelter our children somehow protects them is in my opinion a little naive. I have only found that the more you try to shelter them, the more they socially push back or become victims.

Thinking back to my college times I don't think the rooms would hold be back on this project but the lack of amenities around the site. If the project can get the impound lot and create a direct connection to Buffalo State and Elmwood, then I think it could work. Without it you are basically making an oasis that would have to initially be self sufficient until other developments could spur near it. But you have to start somewhere. Maybe there is the opportunity along Niagara street, south of here, to cater to resident needs.

Pegger- Black Rock is "anti-intellectual", I disagree. Your perception is not the reality. Our corner at East And Amherst has produced 3 Ivy league graduates and was the home of the poet Robert Creeley for many years. We have many poor and disadvantaged residents but there are also many intelligent hard working people raising their families here in the rock. I would argue that the experience of growing up in this neighborhood has the advantage of staying grounded, not becoming pretentious and arrogant.

on the contrary, sbrof, this creates even more pressure on Howard for Buffalo State to accelerate its own development plans. In addition to student housing which is in extremely short supply for Buffalo State and Canisius and possibly Medaille this puls more pressure on Buffalo State to cross Grant and Tonawanda and Scajaquada Creek to Amherst.

Student Dorms are only one aspect of the expansion needed. Small Business Incubators are desperately needed Lab Facilities Computer Facilities Administration Teachers Offices even a pay-parking garage would all be successful

Much of the on-campus space for Buffalo State is at a premium so its becoming more and more clear that the core campus needs to be reserved for academics and the non-academic buildings need to be relocated to the periphery which can also have parking and ease of access during non-class times.

BTW, any news on the Pierce Arrow Complex conversion to student housing?

ChrisHawley has got it right

I left my opinion (at length) over on my official site:

www.tomfoolery4.wordpress.com

Every Buffalo Rising reader deserves the truth. Can they handle it, though?

I"snit anyone wondering where Howard was/is?

Why isnt Howard exandind Buffalo State?

Why is she refusing 10,000 students per year? "

I bet I can guess what Chris69's answer is . . .

buffaloweiner=chris69

"Is the owner ashamed this is a stark industrial building? Does he not realize that's what's hip these days? " Yeah, like hip 20 years ago? Most "hip" cities have gone past the rough industrial look. You know like been there done that 20 years ago.

Bureaucracies be damned! Full Speed Ahead!!

Correction to Tom Waters' comment:

Correct website is, www.douchbaggery4.wordpress.com

We all know BRO is a journalistic high-water-mark, but surely you can find another site with an editor willing to play by your rules?!

Dude, get a grip.

Tomwaters- why do you need an "official site"? Are your opinions superior to all others? Maybe you should condense your comments to fit or stop taking up space on Buffalorising.

its just not rockin' enough. the problem i have is that its a commercial idea that capitalizes on Buffalo State's resources. How much better could the school do if it chose to expand its property? imagine if buffalo state decided to build student housing where the proposed hotel was suppose to go. Bingo.

My apologies for offending anyone on the neighborhood issue. Yes, Buffalo was a blue collar town at one time. Perhaps my own prejudices were reflected here because at one time I lived in Riverside and attended PS 65. We tended to look down on Black Rock. I was also educated in the Ken-Ton schools. Plenty of smart kids were found in all the places where I attended public schools. I didn't intend to imply that BR people were dumber.

Colleges do well in all kinds of settings. Most of us can agree that the Amherst campus is visually unappealing, so I agree that ia suburban location does not necessarily make a school any better in a qualitative sense. I had to transfer several time while a college student which afforded me a variety of different settings. Personally, I liked the fast paced urban experience of Long Beach, CA. The population of that city was very diverse and stimulating. It suited me. Housing was a very large part of the college experience. I don't find that general area appealing in that regard.

I agree that it is a potential boon for Black Rock especially if it takes off and spurs further student oriented businesses and housing. The general consensus here seems to be very favorable. As for the building itself, I think it has character and integrity. It sure beats the austerity of the North Campus which seems to be akin to post WWII Russian architecture.

Pegger- were tough here, no hard feelings.

The characterization of Buffalo as entirely bluecollar seems somewhat crude (and inaccurate) to me. Buffalo has a strong intellectual tradition: in science, technology, and certainly in literature, art and music... I'm not sure what an "intellectually stimulating" neighborhood looks like (as PaulBuffalo mentions), but Buffalo put down deep artistic and intellectual roots as early as the 1840s. And this kind of intellectual atmosphere is not out of rhythm with Buffalo's strong working class traditioons. The two worlds are not mutually exclusive.

The broad brushstroke that paints Buffalo as entirely bluecollar is one of those sweeping descriptions that hurts industrial cities' reputations; it makes what was a complex socio-economic place seem one-dimensional. A walk down Delaware Ave, North St, Summer, Richmond Oakland, Ferry, Lincoln, Chapin, Bidwell, Tudor, Lexington, Parkside area, Humboldt, Hamlin Park, much of Allentown and the lower west side, the old Pan-Am grounds, and acres of other streets running off Delaware should suggest that, historically, Buffalo had a prosperous and diverse middle class and an extremely wealthy and cultured ruling class. The large Social Register in Buffalo, the mature cultural institutions and the presence of a univeristy, a Jesuit college, and several smaller colleges, all this suggests a more diverse and textured social dynamic than a simple "blue collar" town.

But what makes one flich even more than one-dimensional descriptions of Buffalo as "bluecollar" is the implication in this thread that bluecollar people are divorced from art or intellectual concerns. Coming from a family with blue collar origins on the East side, and knowing many people from blue collar households, I know that's just not true. Blue collar families send their kids for music lessons, read them books, and take them to museums...at least in Buffalo they do.

EricOak, you are so right. The once thriving middle class and the industrial giants who once populated Buffalo left their mark. The outstanding examples of architecture still extant serve as testaments to more prosperous times. With what little I know about Buffalo history, I would suggest that these neighborhoods and homes were built in the era from the 1880's to the 1920's. Like most northern industrial cities, Buffalo ebbed and flowed with the times, technology, and politics. Not to make a history lesson out of this, but the heydays most of us are familiar with are those years in the mid 20th century manufacturing period. They are also part of the post WWII times of urban sprawl when the once slow movement of populations to the suburbs expanded into an exodus. There was prosperity for working people of all incomes. The perception was that only those whose incomes were lower had to remain stuck in the city. We all know that a large middle class did not leave.

We still have many of the fine homes and desireable neighborhoods. But, what has happened to them? Most of the grand homes on Millionaire's row have been donated or sold to larger interests and organizations. The rich found them difficult to maintain. Many of adjacent homes were divided into apartments. But the most predominant housing type is/was the two family dwelling.

We all know what happened when industry abandoned the city. This was not a uniquely Buffalo phenomenon. This pattern is reflected throughout the Rust Belt. Yet, there remains a large middle class in the city. But, I think it is often characterized as a blue collar place for reasons cited above. The preponderance of multi-family dwellings seems to validate that perception. Now, it is also known as the second poorest industrial city in America. That is a statistical fact.

The truth is that it is a very cultured place with a rich heritage. It is part the legacy of better times and the people who specifically made efforts to preserve or endow it. If not for the efforts of our contemporaries, it would be vanishing at lightning speed to the wrecking ball. It is on this forum that you will find some of them. The city is a museum as long as preservation efforts succeed.

I think that is a long story short.

Pegger--I agree with your sense of urgency. What's encouraging is that many more people are waking up to the beauty of Buffalo's layout, architectural heritage, and potential as an urban center. The restoration of vitality to all older Northern cities is going to be daunting, but with people like you, PaulBuffalo, and so many others who take the time to reflect on Buffalo's textures and ambiance, we at least have hope. Ten to fifteen years ago, I didn't feel the presence of hope...it's as if people have woken up, with energy, to what Buffalo could be again.

^^ yes!