May 1st, 10:24am
By queenseyes
“Under the overpass and through the woods, to Erie Basin Beach we go”… that’s pretty much what you would have to do if you followed the route laid out by past planners. But instead of following totally ridiculous, out-of-the-way route, people have created what is known as, ‘A Path Of Desire’ (or desire line). “That’s what we call these types of paths,” Tim Tielman told me. “You can see how worn the grass is there [pointing]… it’s worn because that’s where people choose to walk. Of course they are not going to stray away from the road and follow the stairs that lead down to an isolated bus stop, before heading back out to the road. Instead, they follow the quickest and safest route. These are some of the things that we’re looking at when we attempt to connect the marina with downtown.”
I hope that if this path of desire (or path of least resistance) is ever made into a permanent walking trail that the natural windy path is kept. It would serve as a reminder to future planners that sometimes the design should be obvious, rather than elaborate. And just think about what it's like to be a biker. No sidewalk and no bike lane. That means that bikers must risk their lives just trying to get to the marina... there are cars coming from all directions when you're in that street zone.
Once the design problems are straightened out, the old concrete stairs can be rededicated to the skateboarders… they would make for some pretty cool rail-slides. But more on the skateboard plaza updates later.
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STEEL
There should not be any street in a city that does not have a sidewalk adjacent on each side. That is a very basic urban planning principle. (Not taught in school unfortunately)
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MikeJW
I would like to read one article that doesn't involve Tim Tielman's imput. Is that the only guy you talk to? This is the type of stuff that frustrates younger people like me(28), it's the same old people coming up with the same old ideas. Can we get people that are younger and more in touch with what people want for this city? I'm sick of hearing the same small group of people that have annointed themselves the decision makers for the city. It's on going crap like this that makes me understand why people continue to move away to more progressive and innovative cities.
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Metropolis
Even with the 190 there, so much more could be done with that area to make a better gateway to the waterfront.
Clean it, weed it, beautify it.
This should be turned into another "Pocket Park"
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InTheBuffalo
I agree with MikeJW... There has to be more opinions out there than just Tim Tielman's...
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queenseyes
OK, the following is the list of people who comprise the Erie Basin Advisory Group. These are the people who are assigned to get the project done. What does the co-chair of the Black Anglers Association know about a desire path? And it's not a special event, or a housing issue. So wouldn't it make sense to talk to the guy in charge of public space?
Chair - Brian Reilly, Chief Economic Development Officer, City of Buffalo
Boaters - Jimmy Jankowiak, Peter Stevens
Anglers - George Johnson, Black Anglers co-chair
Business - Mike Wolasz, Operations Director, Erie Basin Marina
Homeowners - Len Shabat, Waterfront Village Advisory Group
Marine Drive Apts. - Elizabeth Harris, Tenant Council President
Public Space - Tim Tielman, Public Space Advocate
Special Events - Sue Gonzalez, Special Events Coordinator, City of Buffalo
Public Works - Steve Stepniak, Acting Commissioner, DPW
Police - Dan Derenda, Deputy Commissioner, BPD
Congressional - Bonnie Kane Lockwood, Office of Congressman Higgins
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Boz
Talk to Dave Stebbins -- I think he's with BERC. His ideas about redeveloping Erie Street were right on the money. What ever happened to that project?
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STEEL
MikeJW,
Teilman has stood up and pushed the causes he believes in. His efforts have generally been a great benefit to the city. He has worked tirelessly on his own time and with his own money to improve the city. If only Buffalo had more people like him fighting to improve the welfare of the city we might be talking about a very different place on here.
If you want to change things and get things done in your vision of how it should be done then perhaps you need to step up to the plate. I am sure Newell would be very happy to talk to you about your efforts.
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MikeJW
Typical response...he's done so much for the city... Thanks for the update but I'm well aware of that and I never said his efforts weren't appreciated. All I'm saying is that it's time it's time for new ideas and new people. I know i'm not alone in being annoyed reading about the same people in these articles. All this does is inflate is already over inflated ego.
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MikeJW
BTW..it does make sense to talk to the guy in charge of public space. However, like I said it's the same old people being put in positions of power. Nothing will change until new blood is added. I'd be happy to give all my ideas but where will that get me? Everything would have to go through the almighty Tielman, correct?
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wizardofza
wizardofza
Didn't you get the memo? The key to reviving Buffalo is to market it as some kind of retirement home for the "architecturally aware" +60 crowd.
After all, old fart knowitalls splitting hairs over frivolous urban design elements in parts of the city few people venture to, is far more important than developing career opportunities for young people like us. :/
Would the last under-30 person leaving Buffalo please shut the lights off?
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nascarinbuffalo
No it doesn't make sense to talk to the so-called "public space advocate," especially since he clearly does not know what is going on down at the marina. Didn't you (queeneseyes) suggest opening a clam bar at the marina after talking to him. Apparently, Tim has never exited his roofless bus and seen the clam bar that already is there.
Tim got his stupid and pointless commercial slip. He should now leave the rest of Buffalo alone for the rest of us.
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STEEL
MikeJW,
People are awaiting your fresh young ideas.
By the way. It is not just about spewing. It is about doing. Tielman does things and gets things done. That is why he is noticed and that is why people go to him for his opinions. Your odd prejudice against older more experienced people not withstanding, what have you actually done to bring new ideas to the table?
The problem with Buffalo has been and continues to be the people on the sidelines complaining and waiting for someone else to do something. Stop complaining Mike and start doing the things you want done. You say you want new fresh "Young" ideas. Well then - BRING IT ON! what are you waiting for? ? ? ?
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InTheBuffalo
Sorry that some of us want to hear ideas from multiple sources and not just Tim Tielman all the time. Reading about the same ideas from the same people doesn't make this site more interesting to read and doesn't provide for a robust marketplace of ideas.
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MikeJW
I'm in no way prejudice towards "older" people as you put it. On the other hand what has the older generation done lately...lawsuits to stop modern buildings, complain about everything, come up with the same, played out ideas.
Yes, like I said Tielman has gotten things done and boy does he love to hear or read about it. It's an ego thing
BTW, I do actively participate in my community and help out whenever I can. You're assuming that I'm just complaining and not doing. Ironic to hear someone put my efforts down and that person doesn't live or work in the same state. I talk to people almost daily in their 20's and 30's that are frustrated and don't know where to express those ideas. Have you tried to get a meeting with the mayor? It's like trying to break into Fort Knox...
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JimOstrowski
Instead of bashing Tim, who has many great ideas, why not come up with some of your own?
Here's my Baby Boom notions:
Synchronized traffic lights please! Get rid of the ice boom. Take down the Skyway. Fill in the 33 with dirt and re-create the fabulous Humboldt Parkway. Make the 198 a parkway through Delaware Park. The city is absolutely filthy. Stop littering! More roundabouts and get rid of the stop signs! That’s the whole point, avoiding needless stops. Stop televising the Buffalo School Board–my stomach muscles are traumatized by the constant laughter.
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onestarmartin
I do not always agree with Tim Teilman, but in this post what has he done wrong other than trying to correct a pedestrian problem? Seems a no brainer to get a path there.
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MikeJW
It's not this post, it's all the other 4 or 5 recently that involve him. BTW I never once bashed his efforts nor stated he didn't have good ideas. Some of you are not understanding...
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RisingDamp666
Here we go with the "STEEL in Chicago"... If you ask young people how they would envision their city, what responses would you get? Would there be a shared vision, or would it be fractured and tenuous? The point is that it takes time to build that intimate knowledge of a place so that you find those common threads that enable people to put aside their self interest and make choices that work for everybody. Architects say they only really know what they're doing when they get into their forties because systems are now so complex. urban planning isn't so densely involved but its impacts are much more profound. Sorry kid, start at the beginning and work your way to the finish. And say hello to Tim Tielman when you get there.
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bboozehound
Steel,
To become a catalyst for change where would you suggest that I start? You say "BRING IT ON" but what do you mean by that? I have ideas and want to get involved but finding a point to dive in has been significantly more difficult then I expected. I've recently joined 'Partners for a Livable Western New York' but have not seen as of yet where they are making a difference? Also, their monthy newsletters are rather useless. I've also recently joined the 'Waterfront Coalition' but have yet to make it to any of their functions and am having a difficult time trying to dissect the multitude of smaller groups that make up the whole in this coalition. I've talked with members of the New Millenium Group and from what they've said they are not as active as they once were. Sorry Chuck Banas - that's just what I've been told. So please Steel, tell me, where do I start??
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MRodgers
Please inform Mr. Tielman that the bus stop is not isolated and is used by youngsters living at the Marine Drive Apartments as are the stairs that exit out of the complex used by residents who have decided to become part of the walkable movement here in the city. To use this area for the skatepark would also need to be checked through with residents of Marine Drive to assure their quiet and quality of life. Instead, why not add a sidewalk to connect the two from Perry Street/Lower Terrace to the one in front of Marine Drive. That's where the grass is downtrodden to begin with.
What we need to remember is, with all the suggestions and plans, we also have people that are in need of consideration.
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Balth
Well, MikeJW, its my 27th birthday today, and theres no way I'm ever leaving Buffalo. I've got plenty of ideas on how to do things, but you have no idea what its like to work here in City Hall. You have to start small, as you said, community service and things like that. Getting things done takes alot of people to go through. You have to get approvals from everybody, and all of those people have different ideas than you.
I just got back from a trip to Pittsburgh over the weekend, and I must say, while part of their waterfront looks nice, the city blew their entire load on building new sports parks and a new arena, while the rest of the city looks exactly like Buffalo. The area right near the new Penguins arena closely resembles Broadway here in Buffalo. I drove around the city and noticed many areas looking like Buffalo. I remember my trip to Baltimore in 2006, and we went down by the waterfront, it was beautiful, but dont venture outside of that tiny little area. Baltimore is exactly like Buffalo, other than their waterfront area. WE ARE GETTING A WATERFRONT, so we will be EXACTLY like these cities. Are these the more progressive cities you would like to live in? Chill out. How does the approval of a boutique hotel on Elmwood or the Condo Tower on Gates Circle REALLY affect you? Yes, it will look nice, but thats about it. I wouldnt think you can afford a million dollar condo on Gates Circle. I also dont think that you would be staying in a boutique hotel, especially if you live here. We are making progress, but it takes time. Tim Teilman does a great job, and he truly knows what is right for the city.
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MikeJW
I'm not leaving either, my fiance and I just bought our first house in Allentown recently. I'm not sure how many times I have to say, I never said Tielman has bad ideas or doesn't do good for the city. It's just time for new blood in positions of influence such as this advisory board.
balth- I didn't realize you were my financial advisor as well. You're also right, it does take time. just a hell of alot longer in Buffalo. 50 years and still nothing on the Outer Harbor.
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MikeJW
I'm not leaving either, my fiance and I just bought our first house in Allentown recently. I'm not sure how many times I have to say, I never said Tielman has bad ideas or doesn't do good for the city. It's just time for new blood in positions of influence such as this advisory board.
balth- I didn't realize you were my financial advisor as well. You're also right, it does take time. just a hell of alot longer in Buffalo. 50 years and still nothing on the Outer Harbor.
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queenseyes
Actually that was my idea about the clam bar because I figured that The Hatch could move their clam bar operation to that spot. I have heard that the The Hatch has right of first refusal on the food related stands.
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sbrof
"some of us want to hear ideas from multiple sources" ok that is easy to understand and desire. Everyone wants fresh new ideas but at the same time unless individuals step up to get their voice heard no one is going to know about them.
Maybe we hear so much opinions and quotes from Tim T not because of some love affair but because there are not enough voices out there trying to change the city. Marilyn Rogers, Harvey Garrett, Tim Tielman, Justin Booth get a lot of press because they make a huge effort to get their voice heard by people in power which draws press. If you want new ideas you shouldn't complain about the people who are stating theirs but complain that not enough other people are stepping it. It is like complaining about the president when you don't vote.
People not getting their ideas out there where people like Queenseyes or others can find them is their own fault.
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bboozehound
Balth,
Do you seriously not understand how things like boutique hotels and upscale condo towers affect everyone living in region? You really don't think the construction jobs, bed taxes, property taxes, density, and spin off business are things that directly effect the health of the city as a whole? I'd be more inclined to say that these are the types of things that actually make a city!
Please tell me there are other people in City Hall that have a little more common sense????
PS: I'd prefer to look to the Austin, Indy, Milwaukee's of the country for examples on how to be 'cool'.
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STEEL
MikeJW,
You say you are not prejudiced against old people and then your very next statement is a generalized rant against old people. In general the people in charge are going to be older more experienced people. Perhaps you can start your quest to have more influence in the world by refraining from unsupported insulting statements against the people who you will need to work with to make change.
Bboozehound,
I am no expert in community activism. Perhaps you should talk to Tielman about how he has done it. I do know that you have to start someplace and probably the best place is based on something you personally want to accomplish. Find people who have similar interests and work together. Attending meetings at established groups is a start. If you want to make a difference within an established group be active within that group. Take a leadership role and get people behind you. Attending meetings alone does not do it. If for example New Millennium is no longer as active as it once was, find out why it is not active. If you want it to be more active then do the things it takes to make it that way.
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RaChaCha
Many of my friends who are involved in bicycle and pedestrian planning call these "cattle paths" - a bit snarky, perhaps, but when the topic comes up in conversation we all get the meaning. These paths frequently spring up where provisions for cyclists and pedestrians were either badly planned or non-existent - and the Erie Blvd. "connection" to the waterfront is an iconic example. Having led tours of the Buffalo waterfront, and having visited there dozens of times, I can attest that it's equally confusing and frustrating to try to get from Main Street to the Erie Basin area whether by foot, bike, or car.
But fortunately, this is a planning mistake (disaster?) that I think can be corrected. A recently minted planning grad from UB, who worked with us here in My Fair City, did his planning master's thesis on the re-opening to traffic of Erie Blvd. from Shelton Square (Main & Division) to the waterfront. Tim Tielman is right on the money that this equal-opportunity barrier to accessing the Buffalo waterfront from Main Street (just a few blocks away) is an issue that needs to be on the front burner for both waterfront and downtown revitalization.
About Tim Tielman, I respectfully (and strongly) disagree with those who see in him nothing but a grandstander. I first met Tim when working on a major downtown preservation campaign (ultimately successful) in My Fair City - we had lunch and he gave me some great advice. He got no compensation (it was Dutch treat), or headlines from that - he didn't even try to sell me a membership in his organization (although I later joined and have pitched in on several efforts). Tim and his wife, Sue, are among the finest folks you'll find in a city of fine folks, and have given heart and soul to preservation and revitalization efforts for decades. Personally, I haven't seen the ego trip that others proclaim. There's no question that Tim and his group have developed a flair for marketing and pushing the issues that they go after, and while that may exceed the comfort level of some, it draws cheers from this Buffalo fan.
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sbrof
there is a plan put in place that would give erie street sidewalks, bike lanes and a direct connection from Main Street to the waterfront. It would be one of the only streets that would provide such a direct line. The next one north is... Porter...
I think the plan and process was moving forward on the TIP (transportation improvement project) list just waiting for funding.. But with a gas tax relief who know what is anything is going to happen to improve transportation anymore.
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mbhxam
balth...r u kidding me? comparing baltimore to buffalo...the same but for the waterfront?!?!?!?
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sbrof
Erie Street EPP
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MJWorthington
Well I attached a map with the Erie St idea to another earlier reply. It is now old news by time it appears (if it does) ;)
I should have known it has already been studied. Genessee is another street with potential to connect the inner harbour.
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MJWorthington
Well I attached a map with the Erie St idea to another earlier reply. It is now old news by time it appears (if it does) ;)
I should have known it has already been studied. Lots of great old pics and history in that EPP. Genessee is another street with potential to connect the inner harbour.
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reflip
MIkeJW,
If you want to get involved, start by regularly attending meetings of your neighborhood association. Maybe get on a subcommittee. Work within your neighborhood structure to get some experience with how things get done, who decides how the CDBG money gets spent, who you need to interface with at City Hall, etc.
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GDC
What about putting sidewalks around Forest Lawn Cemetary? Like along Delaware Ave, where you have two bus stops and have to cross to get to them and forget about winter (wet, ice, etc.) Something else to think about regarding Sidewalks.
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JimOstrowski
"50 years and still nothing on the Outer Harbor."
Explained here:
http://freenewyork.org/articles/policyreports/fbpr4--BassPro.pdf
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Eisen
Is there an option where I can vote to keep it the way it is so my taxes don't go up? Everyone hates paying for pork and pet projects but love seeing them. If you can get to the water with out killing yourself, leave it and work on something worth while.
It's hard for me to take someone who suggested turning the skyway into a park seriously. Just because he's a nice guy doesn't mean he knows best. MikeJW has done nothing wrong, and most people our age do agree with him. You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves for jumping down his throat for no reason.
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Buffalopundit
I don't begrudge Tielman his voice, but what makes him an expert on public space? What are his credentials, exactly? Why is he any more an expert on public space than, say, the Butcher?
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ToughintheStreets
As a fellow young professional in Buffalo I stand with MikeJW. And before anyone tells me to get more involved let me say this: The only reason I am still in Buffalo is b/c I have a job that directly effects the economic health and in some respects standard of living in this city. I was offered a promising job in Washington DC but chose to stay in Buffalo because I felt the job I was offered here gave me the opportunity to work towards making Buffalo a better place to live. I have worked with many different groups including the city, state, county, numerous groups, organizations, businesses etc in Buffalo and I am constantly frustrated by the "older generation" in this city. MikeJW is right we only hear one voice in this city and usually its Tielmans. However its not just him. I have a tremendous amount of respect for him and what he does for this city but he is one voice speaking for a specific group of people and I don't always think he's right. His preservation efforts are commendable and I am grateful that I can still travel around the city and enjoy his architectural success stories. But his opinion is not always right. The best example of this is the convention center that never got built. He was a major opponent. (yes i realize not the only one) To save buildings that are now a bar and apartments. Not architectural gems. Young people in this city leave and don't get involved b/c I believe they feel that they aren't listened to. There are so few of us left that politicians never address any concerns that we have when they campaign b/c many of us don't vote and the ones that do are part of such a small group their voice doesn't get heard. Instead politicians appeal to the older community and what they want (including Tim Tielman) and thats how they get elected. So what is our recourse? Get involved in a group headed by someone who won't listen to us who appeals to a politician who doesn't care about us? Tielman needs a voice in this community. We have buildings that need to be preserved and quality of life issues that need to be addressed. But his is not the only voice we need to hear. Just because he gets it done doesn't always mean its the best or only solution to the problem. Why do we bicker about where to put a path, or how a video store should be built or who has the rights to the clam bar at the marina? Has anyone noticed our school system?! How many people do you think would move back into the city if they knew their children would be safe and well educated? These are the issues that cause the state Buffalo is in and yet they aren't addressed! And the fact that they aren't addressed, and never get addressed is why young people leave. So go on and discuss the latest elmwood restaurant, and a clam bar, and bike racks, and UB's newest 20/20 plans, and what kind of bridge we should build for the next 10 years while the school system fails, waves of politicians fail to make any real progress more young people are alienated, and the population contiually diminishes.
and RE: who to talk to on the Advisory Group? How bout Stepniak? You know.. the commissioner of Public Works?
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JimOstrowski
You pick a bad example of Tielman being "wrong." Taxpayer-funded conventions centers are a loser idea all the way around as was the last one, just a ghastly project.
As for the schools, what is your solution? The government schools have been under withering attack from the left and the right from 50 years and little has changed.
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sbrof
Tough, I really agree that one of THE issues facing the city is its school system. There are many old ingrained issues that no one knows how to fix yet. I was heartened to hear Paladino speak out against the board and commissioner. Not because they are bad people but because there hasn't been progress. I normally am not a Paladino fan but he earned some respect to call them out and force a public discussion about it. But what is going to get done in the end? Nothing, because in the end .4% of the electorate will vote and we will be stuck with the same politicians / school board members as always. Remember in the end we have not one to blame but ourselves for the state of things. If we really dislike our politicians so much and it ruins our lives soo much then we should kick them out and find better ones. But when push comes to shove people would rather just move than fight the fight.
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onestarmartin
conventions are one of the biggest cash cows for any city that does it right. will not happen here do to the small dated convention center we have and the lack of hotel rooms. that is why we a regulated to the snow removal symposium or whatever the hell it is called.
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MikeJW
steel- please take off your Tim Tielman fan club t-shirt and read what I'm saying. I never once said he doesn't do good work. Secondly, can you honestly say the ''old guard" is good for Buffalo? Take a poll of people under 35 and see what their opinions are. I know a bunch of people my age that are willing and ready to get involved but have no idea where to go. Just like Toughinthestreets said, you can join a group but most of the time their motives are for political gain and your ideas fall on deaf ears. Lastly since you were ignorant enough to assume I'm not actively involved in my neighborhood, what exactly do you do from your perch in Chicago? Excuse me but I find it hilarious someone that moved away from Buffalo is criticizing me... someone that is actively investing their time, money and energy to better the city.
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WCPerspective
City vs Suburb, New vs Old, Black vs White. Oy Vey- some things never change.
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reflip
I didn't mean to insult anyone by suggesting they go to a neighborhood meeting. I stand by that statement. If your neighborhood group is more like a fiefdom that won't let you in - that's a different issue. But generally, neighborhood meetings are open to the public and you can introduce yourself to people there. Since the city has some kind of community planning process, I would assume the neighborhood associations are involved.
As for the Buffalo Public Schools:
TitS, you are right. If the BPS was better, less people would leave. However, almost NO cities anywhere in these United States have even moderately successful urban public school systems. Buffalo is pretty par for the course, as far as that goes. If we "fixed" the BPS, that would basically make us the only city in the US that effectively educates its citizens. Obviously, that would go a long, long way towards helping Buffalo turn around. We would get a national reputation pretty quickly. So, let's do it!
But, I do have to ask - we scapegoat the school system saying that, "Well, I wouldn't have moved to the suburbs if the schools were better," and yet other cities seem to be doing better than Buffalo despite similarly failing public schools. How does that work? It obviously implies that good schools have little if anything to do with the success of a city. Of course, we all agree that the failure of the public schools is a tragedy. However, I'm just playing devil's advocate by pointing out that it is a national tragedy, not just a local one. There must be more to this story.
Also, if your major issue is reforming the schools, I can pretty much garauntee no one will listen to you. Ever. You are setting yourself up for failure and disillusionment.
Glad you've made a committment to Buffalo, though! That act in itself is your voice. If more people "spoke up" in this way, the schools wouldn't be so bad. There wouldn't be so many abandoned buildings. There were be more people to assert their collective voice and demand change, break the cycle of disinterest and disinvestment, etc. Don't feel like you have to change everything all at once. Like Gandhi said, be the change you want to see in the world. Sounds like you are doing that, which is, again, a powerful act in itself. Don't sell yourself short.
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nascarinbuffalo
My apologies to Tim. I didn't realize it was purely queenseyes' idea to move the claim bar at the marina from the the end with all the seating, parking, and weekend karaoke to the end with the gas pumps.
I suspect, however, that public space advocate Tim is responsible for the foot bridge over the commercial slip that goes from nowhere to nowhere.
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ToughintheStreets
Exactly Onestar! Do the research Jim. Our CC is awful! and we'll loose events like the symposium if we can't at least update the center we have. Those events pump tons of outside cash into our economy. Wasn't there a big to-do about the NCAA's drawing millions in economic impact last year? You all go nuts on this site about how to build stuff. Here's your chance and you balk at it! Do the research on a center, figure out what it would need to be competitive with other centers around the country and build it! or at least post an article on what the implications would be if we built it (Steel, WCP) No, no, bad idea. Building a better center that will lure larger events and more people with money to spend in our city is a bad idea.
Sbrof, one of the few times you and I agree. I live in the suburbs now but am looking to move into the city in the next year or so. But I will immediately move back out into the suburbs when I have children so that they have better schooling. I will not subject them to a city school. Ever. As a young person It's disheartening to see the level of corruption in the school system. And the fact that nothing serious is being done about it makes me wonder about this city and its leaders. Where is the outrage from Byron Brown? Has he said or done anything? It's not just McKinley either. Now its the "crown Jewel" of the system under fire. What will happen to ITS reputation? While the school system has its pants around its ankles the board voted to officially pronounce that Paladino is a very mean man and we dont like or approve of what he said. Bad Carl. Bad. Why is the school board wasting time adressing that while all the other BS is allowed to continue? Why is Paladino the only one saying something? Where Paladino screwed up is that he turned it into a race thing. He should have stopped at unqualified and stupid or whatever he said. When you bring up race the rest of your argument loses credibility.
My solution Jim? Put the school system under attack by the right people. Not me, or concerned parents or you or the media. I want to see the city, county and state go after them. REALLY go after them. Not put them in the corner for time out for a few minutes. I want to see a Buffalo Police and FBI investigation of the ENTIRE system from Williams to the teachers, to the aides , right down to the custodial crews! Get rid of Williams. Now. No questions asked. hes had plenty of chances. we need a fresh face. Period. The principal at Mckinley? Gone. You don't even get a chance to explain yourself. There is no explaination for such disgusting corruption. Krestesez and the other two involved in the city honors fiasco? Buh-bye. And while were at it didnt the BNP or BNE put out a report on how Buffalo should shrink its govenrment b/c there are too many reps for the shirinking amout of population we have? Lets do that! Consolidate the govenrment to reflect the population we have not the population we had. Or was that the three on the council that already got axed?
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Lifer
Here is what I have learned in reading this massive spewing of crap: 1) Don't bother responding to anything on this site that is at all critical of someone with money, resources and connections. Your input is not welcome and will be responded to with "well, what have you done?" or "You don't know anything because you aren't on my list of people who know things..." 2) The old guard has done a wonderful job of preserving our heritage, developing our resources and shepherding Buffalo into the 21st century. This is evidenced through the well thought out NFTA system, the bustling waterfront and some of the best public schools this side of East St. Louis. Well done boomers - way to go. 3) If you are a twenty-something who has moved back to Buffalo, hoping to make a difference - wait for at least another 20 years as your ideas have not had the time to mature and age like fine wine. If you aren't willing to quit your job to go live in a squatter's house to raise turnips with deadbeats, B-Rising probably has no need for you...
All this being said, I think sidewalks would be a good thing right there.
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ToughintheStreets
I have to apologize about the long bumbling post. To clarify my big issue isnt neccesarily the school system its the way its handled as a reflection of a whole I suppose. With everything thats gone on the last few months why hasnt someone at city hall stood up and said WTF?. It just seems like the problems and corruption are so obvious it should be easy to ge a new superintendent? No? But insteand it just drags on with nothing really being done about it. Thats my problem Reflip. I know that urban schools across the country mirror ours, and I wont suggest that the system itself can be easily fixed if at all. But as a young person it seems to me that after all that has gone on someone would do something to give a new superintendant a chance to do a better job not just put up with the old one. I didn't mean to scapegoat the schools. Cetainly they arent the only problem. And I dont expect to change everything at once or anything at all. I would just like to see leaders in this community make decisions that suggest they recognize and care about the under 30 population of Buffalo. not just Tim Tielman.
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nottooanon
Well this certainly got off topic quickly.... Of course schools are the problem. They have been, and it will most likely only continue to get worse as time goes on. While the administration is a joke and the teachers may not be the greatest in the world (since the city schools are usually a 'last resort' for a lot of new teachers), I think most of us realize that its hard to make lemonade with rotten lemons. The old 'kids these days' argument. But noone really wants to say that a large percentage of urban families have terrible parenting because that leads to racist comments. And we can't hurt anyone's feelings now, can we? But yes, I think the biggest problem is parenting, and teachers aren't supposed to be parents. Fix the parenting, however we can do that with the kid gloves we need to use, but just get it done. Then the schools will be better, and then people will move back, and then putting sidewalks leading to the marina makes sense. Get it?
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nick
You know what would make urban schools better? People with affluence not saying they'll move and pull out of Buffalo when they have kids. No, its easier to pull out of the city than risk your kid. Fix it for me, do this for me. Wanting a poverty striken, corrupt district to change is great, but what is the impetus when people just leave before entering the system. People need to take the chance, turning a school district is akin to turning and gentrifying a neighborhood, someone actually needs to make the investment and live there or send their kids to city schools. If there is no influx of these students, the schools have no reason to change the machine.
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MikeJW
Thank you Lifer, I see you get it. According some members of this site you can only make a difference or bring about positive change if you've "been around the block and have alot of experience under your belt"
Let's see i'm 28 now so according to that logic, my voice will be heard right about the time I'm ready to get discounted coffee at McDonald's. But hey I'm just a lowly engineer so who am I to talk. I leave this up to the almighty urban planners and architects(real and armchair)
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MikeJW
Thank you Lifer, I see you get it. According some members of this site you can only make a difference or bring about positive change if you've "been around the block and have alot of experience under your belt"
Let's see i'm 28 now so according to that logic, my voice will be heard right about the time I'm ready to get discounted coffee at McDonald's. But hey I'm just a lowly engineer so who am I to talk. I leave this up to the almighty urban planners and architects(real and armchair)
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buffknut
hey I'm slightly over 50 and agree with some of these younger people. The hippie generation really has screwed this place up. I tell my college age kids they are the ones that will have to fix the mess my generation caused. If they even stay.
More on topic, I run in that area quite often and it's really a nice area. I wish I could see the Marina apartments replaced by some 50 story condos and I'd like to see the crappy ramps redone but then again, I really want as little government new spending as possible so would prefer we just clean up what we have and leave it at that.
But really, don't listen too much to someone old like me.
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MJWorthington
why can't we have discussions on topics other than those large topics like jobs and schools? lets just keep bringing up the massive issues with no isolated city based solutions in every post and ignore anything else we could do in the mean time, right?
Sure, bring up the 90's convention center that never had the funding to begin with. One that would have gobbed up urban blocks and put up more walls downtown like the current one and the main place mall. Thank the higher power that it didn't happen.
Please show me reports that show a poor urban school district that is not under performing its wealthier suburbs. If it is I bet its a small separate district in a wealthy part of that poor city. Want to cure the schools? Desegregate across all town lines in Erie County to stop the fleeing. As long as "responsible" better off families continue to move out while the opposite get left behind the schools will under perform and be a subsidized mess. Inner ring school districts will be feeling the hurt soon enough as people continue to flee outward while wondering why no one else is fixing the problem.
reflip said it well. Solve this issue: getting a poor city school district to outperform its wealthier suburbs, you will be only ones in the country to do so and become in high demand. Can any suburban school board do it since they are so great? Well come to the city and they can prove it. If they do they will become millionaires in consulting afterwards. No going to happen.
So yes, lets try to improve the schools, but realize what they are up against. And at the same time also work on the small things that contribute to our quality of life and help promote private investment. They add up to be a very strong force which may help to strengthen the school base in the long run.
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MJWorthington
for what its worth..I'm 32 and a mechanical engineer ;)
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Charger
What a bizarre thread. For years Tim Tielman has toiled away outside the walls of power fighting with the Establishment. Suddenly the Mayor appoints him to some ad hoc committee on the Marina, BRO quotes him a couple of times and he's being pilloried as part of the some old-boy network that's been dragging Buffalo down with its regressive, stick-in-the-mud policies. And what got this rant going? Tim suggested a sidewalk next to the street.
I have to admit I have not read every post, but if you want to make a difference and everyone you try to work with it too old and crusty to see how brilliant you are there is always the route of starting your own organization. You could make a case that there are too many organizations already, but heck, if your ideas are wonderful and you can get people to support you, go for it. He has his detractors, but Michael Gainer started Buffalo ReUse from scratch in a matter of a few months. Marti Gorman (with Newell and others) got Buffalo Homecoming going. Blair Woods (and others) got Urban Roots going.
MikeJW, if you've been shut out and have a great idea take your youth and energy and start something new, but quit complaining because someone with good ideas about urban space if finally having someone listen to him.
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Jim
And Charger, if I can add... Michaels Attardo and Ferdman got Forever Elmwood started. Mark Goldman encouraged Chippewa. Marvin Lunenfeld planted & grew Garden Walk.
It's people that make things happen, not entities. If someone wants change, Buffalo's small enough, they should go out and do it.
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impressingagent
hello.. hello elynor can you hear me?
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ToughintheStreets
Yes MJWorth b/c those same city blocks you mentioned are so well used now. Thank god we didnt put up a Convention Center that would bring in millions of dollars in outside spending and provide more entertainment for the people that live here. Its much better the way it is now. I for one love all the vacant space on Main street and the surrounding blocks. I think they've done much more good than anything else that might go there. Thank god a convention center or some other new fangled building didnt go up there blocking my view of all those gorgeous, old, crumbling, vacant buildings. MJ you hit my point about the schools on the head. I won't suggest that we should or even can really "fix" them. But am I the only one thats disturbed by whats allowed to go on? How can we even think of working to make our schools better like you say when people like williams are allowed to stay in their jobs? Thats my beef with the older generation here. Throw a fit and rally the troops when a dilpadated bar gets torn down. But shrug your shoulders and ignore kids being fondeled, and corrupt administrators.
Why cant we have conversations about anything other than big topics? BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT MATTER. Tell me how much good will come of sidewalk no sidewalk? Or what city saving idea will come from discussing what to do with those old parking meters?
Everybody stop. No more posts on subjects like schools, and jobs, and economic growth. Stop those silly conversations right now and lets all go back to talking about the sidewalk. Are there any old parking meters we could use as a bike rack once we get the sidewalk in? We need to make this place as nice as possible because once I lose my job due to shrinking economy I 'm going to be down there watching the skateboarders do railslides all day and I don't want to be sitting someplace that doesnt properly use space while staying true to buffalos roots. Because that would be a travesty.
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Lifer
Maybe they could put decorative plates in the sidewalks - alomst like a Waterfront Walk of Fame - to properly honor all those that have made our waterfront what it is today. They could put up a nice green wooden sign to point out the Walk of Fame to the several, if not dozens, of people who will use this path.
I jest... but seriously, can't we get some sidewalks in there? This needs to be addressed - no one wants to walk on the cement already there...
Here's an idea, clean up what is already there, put in some lights, perhaps have an emergency light post to deter crime - perhaps then people won't avoid walking through what currently is a dirty, desolate and dangerous path to the marina...
And I better get a couple stars for that alliteration...
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Lifer
Maybe they could put decorative plates in the sidewalks - alomst like a Waterfront Walk of Fame - to properly honor all those that have made our waterfront what it is today. They could put up a nice green wooden sign to point out the Walk of Fame to the several, if not dozens, of people who will use this path.
I jest... but seriously, can't we get some sidewalks in there? This needs to be addressed - no one wants to walk on the cement already there...
Here's an idea, clean up what is already there, put in some lights, perhaps have an emergency light post to deter crime - perhaps then people won't avoid walking through what currently is a dirty, desolate and dangerous path to the marina...
And I better get a couple stars for that alliteration...
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JimOstrowski
Downtown in poor shape because we failed to build yet another expensive, money-losing project?
Why does anyone thing that if you add up enough money-losers together, you somehow get black ink? How about doing projects that make money and when you add them together, you get what we lack, lots of money for further investment and good jobs.
On why the government should not be in the convention center business, see this:
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=10795
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Buffalopundit
Of course, there is a perfectly good sidewalk directly across the street and parallel to this "path of desire".
It's quite well-used by people who are not too lazy to cross the street to reach said sidewalk.
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Buffalopundit