Buffalo Rising Online

Give it up already !!! People have to learn to let go all good things come to an end,and in this case the end came years ago.Nobody cared about these ugly grain mills for the past twenty five years until somebody came along with a vision to revitalize the area and build something useful. Are you idiots going to be down at the aud with your keep the aud mothballed picket signs when Bass Pro starts construction??? Do everybody a favor go down to the rat infested,weed pit wasteland with your camera take tons of pictures for your memories and them go home and burn your picket signs and let Buffalo get started with its rebirth !!!!

We are so lucky to live in a part of the country very rich with architectural history. So many cities i have visited and lived in are nothing but strip malls, housing developments and parking lots - one after another - after another. unfortunately there are those who believe we should simply rip down everything we have and replace it with new here too. What i'd like to suggest is that those who want to tear down entire sections of Buffalo is that they should go see what a new city is like, perhaps it will give them a fresh perspective. perhaps they might even find a place they'd be happier living!

steel, I'd guess you and other 'wanna-be preservationists' never stepped foot in that neck of the woods...now you want to protest the demolition of structures that are dangerous, rotting, and rat infested...It's time to move on...you think the people that live in that community--including the 'new pioneers' (Elk Terminal) feel the same way? Unlikely. I remember visiting the Elk Street Terminal Lofts to see what I thought was a large cat crossing the street that stands between H-O and the lofts. It turned out to be the biggest rat I've ever seen. Other grain elevators still stand...it's all documented with photos...accept change and progress. With all due respect, are you dillusional enough to think people would travel to Buffalo to tour the rotting H-O grain elevator? If you were a successful developer--would you invest YOUR money into renovating the same? I doubt it. It's time to create 'New Cobblestone'--a mix of the worthwhile old architecture and new. Focus your energies on landmarks like The Richardson Complex or other valuable structures in Buffalo Proper. Look at what's happened on Main Street Downtown...The L.L. Berger...The Sidway...Main Street Medical Campus development...Washington Street development ( Holling Press)...The Washington Market and other new residential/commercial mix developments...Buffalo Alternative School on Oak. All of these preserved old, empty structures that have architectural value. What we need to focus our energy on is the creation of 'critical mass' in these areas that will foster further development and business growth. What I'd like to see is more 'ownership' (i.e.-City Centre) and less rental developments so those that live there have a vested interest in Buffalo's future.

I allready moved away . I have been down in Florida for almost 7 years,I wanted to get away from people who think that Buffalo should remain in a decaying state. Nobody is calling for entire sections of Buffalo to be torn down,but a old rat infested eye sore with no practical use,so a state of the art casino and entertainment complex can be built. This will be turned into an area that will bring people downtown and to the new waterfront,instead of a area you drive thru and say o my god this looks like a vast wasteland. I am all for preservation with commen sense like turning some of the old buildings and wharehouses into condos with shops and restaurants.I now sense the return of Buffalo,projects are actually being started instead of talk and 20 year studies. I will be moving back home around May 06 because I want to be part of the new exciting Buffalo! I do not understand why people are so scared of change, Buffalo has turned into what it is because of this narrow minded thinking.Whats the matter with some new modern buildings mixed in with the old ?

Rome, you are "right on" with this post. There were plenty of times the preservationists could have acted for the future of many buldings. Instead they sat and waited until the day that the end was near.

This should be a wake-up call to all preservationists. Look around you, take inventory of what is considered sacred to the preservation concepts, and start working to see they have a life beyond their current dismal situation.

Sure, it's great press to be seen at the demolition of a building that has been allowed to deteriorate for decades. However, it is even greater to work to preserve what can be now, for the future.

I consider myself a preservationist. I would not be living where I am today if I weren't. A young man recently saved two historic buildings in my neighborhood. One of the buildings was considered un-rehabable by preservationists.

Instead of getting a pat on the back from preservation organizations, he was harrassed by the Preservation Board and one of their inspectors, who incidentally, wanted to buy the property, but lost out to this fellow. This neighbor is an unsung hero for preservation. He took it upon himself to save two buildings before they deteriorated beyond repair. Our preservationists should do the same for the rest of Buffalo.

Olmsted's son created an inventory program in Charleston, SC. We can do the same here utilizing students of architecture. I have attempted to make contact for this possible project but have been hampered by "Old Buffalo" - yes, that's right - New Buffalo is not only defined by government - it is also defined by the people.

Instead we have minute groups of folks who stay the course instead of progressing. These same folks aren't even aware of some of the preservation districts. (I'll keep that one under my hat for now.)

Hopefully, more will get onboard with the Neighborhood Preservation Collaborative - http://npc-buffalo.blogspot.com - and start working at a grass roots level - with the neighborhoods that are impacted by deterioration. But, you can't just belong to an organization without putting forth effort. And I sincerely mean effort that starts now, instead of waiting for the end to appear like Superman.

With preservation of abuilding or an area comes security and safety. These issues also need to be addressed. Proper mothballing of buildings where they cannot be entered and used by vagrants or drug dealers can preserve buildings from demolition by neglect. Creating watch groups to assure these buildings get into Housing Court and their owners/developers are put on notice that they must adhere to code can work wonders.

Being proactive rather than reactive is the key for preservation.

It would be nice to keep one of two of the grain elevators, turn them into a museum of sorts. Other than that it takes millions and millions to renevate the into anything else..such as living quarters or something like that. Definitely time to move on, and make way for a new waterfront.

look, i am known to most of my friends as mr. buffalo. i love this city and i love the architecture. lets get real here, keep a couple of those suckers and tear the rest down! they are ugly, contaminated, and will fall down by themselves anyways if we sit here and keep arguing about them. we need to start cleaning up, there are reasons why buffalo has the highest cancer rates in the country....

Awesome read Steel. Making this situation all the more, far too sad. I caught up with the other posts concerning this topic over the past week. Larry B presents intelligent and factual information. He and I are both coming from the Pacific Northwest, where there are an abundance of casinos. I was stunned a few months ago when I first read about this. I said it then, and I'll say it again....it would be unthinkable to give away prime development property over to an Indian Casino...there would be no debate over it. We've seen the affects. We've seen what the surrounding properties become. Increased crime. The casinos did little to improve unemployment. This is simply a trade off for even bigger rats. We have found the adage 'Buffalo is the 20 minute city' to be true...this one's too close.

Thanks for the fascinating post Steel. I can't believe the people objecting here actually read the whole article. I guess they'd tear down the Parthenon and Roman Forum, too. Why not build something shiny and modern over the piles of crumbling marble and wasted land?

These structures are a unique and important part of Buffalo's (and America's) history, They should be preserved for future generation to learn from and enjoy.

Seattle created Gas Works Park out of an "ugly, rotting eyesore": http://www.vrseattle.com/pages/browse.php?cat_id=64

Why can't Buffalo build interesting parks around these monuments to our history? They could be outdoor museums, if you will, with informational displays and kiosks explaining their history. They could be dramatically lit at night. They could be artistically painted to become giant public art - there are endless possibilities for giving these structures new and eternal life.

The fact that they are currently abandoned, rat-infested buildings surrounded by wasteland is a very week rational for giving up on them. In time the elevators can be turned into a unique draw for Buffalo on par with the FLW buildings, Olmsted Park System, etc.

Everyone has made good points. Here is an example of an old industrial building that was considered an eyesore and urged to be torn down in Baltimore. Reusing a building is usually more expensive than starting over but the end result can be much more interesting. Somebody put a ton of money into this project and it is a hit. Doesn't mean it can and should happen everywhere but take a look at adaptive reuse. There are plenty of examples of Grain Elevator reuse too. Developers have obviously made money in those projects too. http://www.photo.net/philip-greenspun/photos/pcd4315/baltimore-harbor-barnes-and-noble-80.tcl

Tear 'em down. Keep a few grain elevators and tear the ghastly hulking eyesores down. Over the past few years the thruway authority has changed the signs to re-route cars from the Youngmann Highway to I-190 North right past the industrial sector and past the downtown core. The daytime ride is visually littered with old eyesores that create a lasting image, frightening actually, for passers-by. These passers-by, when they arrive at their destinations, probably say "we passed through Buffalo and it was a nightmare with all of those old derelict structures (I wouldn't even refer to them as buildings) dotting the waterway and the city scape, to say nothing of the derelict boats hanging around." Now contrast that daytime drive with a nighttime drive into the city. It looks a thousand times better with all of those ugly eyesores cloaked in darkness and only the living strucutres of Buffalo's beautiful and most unusual skyline to behold. This scenario happens every 24 hours...the darkness of the night "razing" the visual cacophony that predominates the daytime vistas. This is all the proof I need to convince me that its time for the once proud rusted hulks to move out of the way. I've said this before and I'll say it again, even if Buffalo had 100 million dollars a year for the next 10 years to rehab and reuse these structures there still would never be enough money to make them viable again. and who would come to see them? I already took the Buffalo Creek Cruise and passed all of the elevators and I was left with a sense of prevailing depresion and despair that this was actually a part of my city. Like WWII Berlin. People, let go.

People stop thinking in the past and prepare for the future,change is good for Buffalo. It has become a city of mass decay. Build a museum people say,but the problem with that is the masses do not care enough about a old smelly grain mill. This is what pictures and books are for.Let's start some forward thinking and stop worrying about the past. How come nobody came up with a plan to restore the grain mills before the Seneca's came in with their plan? Let's stop kidding everybody nobody cares about the mills they just don't want a casino. If you dont want to gamble then dont go to it. If you think Howard Stern is a sexist then dont turn on his radio show. I believe the real truth behind these protests are people trying to push their beliefs on others.

Thanks Jeff for bringing the talk back to reuse. A friend and world-class rock climber was in town a couple of months ago and he asked me very point-blank: with all the industrial buildings in this city, why hasn't anyone built a really quality rock climbing gym as can be found in MANY cities of ALL sizes all around North America? In most places we've both visited, the result tends to be "if you build it, they will climb" even in cities or states with no nearby mountains or cliffs. He was puzzled because he saw so much untapped potential here and there are in fact lots of multi-story industrial buildings about. My answer to him was simple: to make that dream happen you have to have someone with the vision, knowledge, AND the financial backing to make it happen,and those two things haven't come together here yet. Now, I'm fully aware that a quality climbing gym certainly is not everyone's prioroity or cup of tea, but it's a relatively inexpensive (compared to say, loft conversion), viable, and appropriate use of industrial buildings, particularly grain elevators, thanks to their wonderful height. And it's just an example of something I've seen be successful in various of places.

So maybe not all of the grain elevators have to or can be saved, but I think it's valuable to encourage some creative, appropriate reuse. Thinking a little out of the box is good.

if the casino is built, that part of town will be useless for any other use. i have seen it. i lived in tucson before and after the casinos were built on the outskirts of town. one happened to be near to my parents home. before the casinos their neighborhood was quaint and quiet. after the casino was built it became a scarry thing just to go down to the circle k at the corner for a quart of milk. that part of buffalo is just beginning to barely eek back to life! what are people thinking! somebody has to do some good quality of life studies on the areas surrounding the casinos that have been built in or near other cities. and not somebody who has their own slant of promoting them! the great majority of people leaving casinos are not happy. for obvious reasons. i have been present to see them take that anger out on the first person they see! that would be a good way to end any hope for a cobblestone district of any use. sadly, my daughter goes to a grammar school that is closer to the grain elevators that my folks were to the casino in tucson.

Larry and Steel...looks like you're in the minority for this one. And Larry--for all your excellent posts and strories on BR--it's a bit shortsighted for you to think I--or anyone who further supported my post--would tear down the likes of the Parthenon or The Forum. That's ignorant. Face it...there are more important architectural landmarks that need support from the preservation community--and I'm a life-long Buffalonian. Did you really read my post--or the post from M Rogers of the 'West Village'? C'mon--get real man...

I'm getting awfully tired of the people who continually just want to tear everything down. Between art and architecture, not to mention character, keeping grain elevators is a really good idea. I'm a photographer myself, and since college have spent a lot of time observing and documenting the unique form follows function designs that were invented here. I have brought other artists there, from other areas of the country, because they WANTED to see these structures. If these people insist on saying we are short sighted for wanting to keep the grain elevators, they should take an hour or two and go to the library and read about how important these are to architectural history. How about just the internet ( if books are too scary)? http://www.albrightknox.org/pastexh/Engel/essay.html . What I and many others think are an eyesore are strip malls. Let's get rid of those! Oh, wait, the entire state of Florida would have nowhere to go...

Emmeleia-

I think a climbing gym would be a fantastic reuse, and I've seen it done, at a gym in Illinois. I was a climber all through 8 years of grad school, down in Tucson, and you're right: even with amazing outdoor climbing literally a 30 min drive from town, that gym was doing very well. It's a business that really doesn't have so much in terms of continuing costs: once you do the conversion, and buy all the holds, your costs are basically rent, electricity, insurance, employees, and new ropes from time to time. No brainer.

And speaking of Tucson- while no doubt the Indian casinos formeted blight down there, too, I have to say at least it was on land they already owned and it wasn't in downtown Tucson, in contrast to what we face here.

Finally, for those who think that the anti-casino crowd has some moralistic take on gambling behind it- not, me, buddy. Some probably do, but my perspective is purely along the lines of cost/benefit analysis for both the city of Buffalo & for the Senecas, too. I was a regular visitor to Las Vegas while I lived in Tucson, and I also have several advanced statistics courses under my belt- I know the deal exactly, and I don't mind some gambling here and there, not at all.

But you're right about one thing: I won't be playing at the Seneca casino in Buffalo, should that come to be. They'll pay the same odds as any casino in Vegas, sure, but they aren't going to deliver the rest of the package- elegance, style- as the big boys do.

Save them all.

The fact that the grain elevators represent the past is not a bad thing. It's just the opposite. They help tell the story of our history. Demolition is short sighted, and represents an extremely cynical (old Buffalo) viewpoint.

I have to question the motivation of those people calling for demolition. Can you please tell me what the purpose is in demolition? In other words, what do you propose to replace them with?

And listen to the words that you keep using (over and over): "dangerous", "rat invested", "eyesores". Did you see today's News? That's how Ani DiFranco's church was once described. Those words were used to pave the way for demolition. Those words serve a "demoliton" agenda. Please stop using them, because they show your bias, and make your opinions suspect.

I can't understand why people that profess to love this city, would call for tearing down it's history.

And one more thing.

BFLO Rome. I think your math is way off. That's another trick of the pro demoliton crowd. Tell us we are in the minority, when (if you check the posts, not counting repeats by the same authors) the majority actually favors preservation.

Hamp- you've saved me from having to write the exact same message, Thanks... and hey 'number-cruncher' there are more of us in support of preservation than you care to realize, so rethink your callous derides, before we begin to really feel insulted. Don't look at these places when your near them, use your extravagant imagination you so vehemently display on this site to erase them from mind, and let those who can decide for themselves if, a place is important to them, have their peace. To some, the Parthenon, just may as well be, one of the ancient grain elevators. Who has put you in charge of their particular tastes, or are we all supposed to be a cookie cutter society and just blindly follow your hallowed lead...Hey BFLOROME...

C'mon now...........You get real...........

HAMP: be realistic. Saving them all would require way too much money; you clearly have not seen them "all." And Larry Bartolomei, please think before you compulsively respond with knee-jerk rebuttals to other BR regulars. You're beginning to lose credibility and BR is beginning to feel a little like a mutual admiration society. The reason parts of Buffalo look the way they do is because not enough has been removed and rebuilt. Take them down before somebody is killed by the deteriorating monstrosities.

Nor is this a moral issue for me or the other 2 people I live with who are stunned over this literal giveaway of the city of Buffalo. It has nothing to do with being against Indian Casinos, gambling, or drinking...with the exception of being responsible. This is completely irresponsible.

City living is a growing trend in this country that isn't going away anytime soon. There is large segment of the generation coming upon us, throughout this country, who have no desire to live in the burbs. They want city life....more and more, so do their parents envision their own lives with the activity of the city surrounding them. Buffalo, your plate is far more full than you are thinking. This city is prime for an inflooding of people throughout the country. It's just going to be difficult to sell the tuxedo...if you're settling for putting it with a pair of brown shoes.

Let me disabuse everyone of the notion that preservationists have ignored Buffalo's grain elevators until the 11th hour.

Exhibit A, 1990: Tim Tielman publishes "Buffalo's Waterfront: A Guidebook," which emphasizes the ihistory and importance of our grain elevators. It is still in print, selling well. See: http://ah.bfn.org/a/wat/cov.html

Exhibit B, 1996: Preservation Coalition organizes rallies in Niagara Square to save Great Northern elevator and the jobs there. See: http://preserve.bfn.org/bpr/apr96/svnggn.html

Exhibit C, ca. 1996: Industrial historians Tom Leary and Elizabeth Scholes successfully nominate the grain elevators to the Historic American Engineering Record. See: http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.pnp/hhh.ny1667

Exhibit D , 2002: Lynda Schneekloth organizes conference about reusing Buffalo's grain elevators. See: http://www.buffalo.edu/reporter/vol34/vol34n2a/articles/GrainElevators.html

Exhibit E, 2003: National Trust for Historic Preservation features Buffalo grain elevators in its newsletter. See: http://www.nationaltrust.org/magazine/archives/arch_story/071604.htm

Exhibit F, 2003: NY State Parks Service recognizes Buffalo's grain elevators. See: http://nysparks.state.ny.us/news/press/view.asp?pressID=290

Exhibit G, annual: Every year, the most popular tour offered by both the Preservation Coalition and the Campaign for Buffalo is the Buffalo harbor boat tour, July 4th weekend, in which the Miss Buffalo passes right underneath the elevators. Buffalo harbor boat tours attract hundreds and fill to capacity, year after year.

in other words, people, this issue is bigger than your opinion or mine. The world is watching what we do with our grain elevators and they aren't buying the bogus "rat infested eyesore" rhetoric.

Larry B. is hardly losing any credibility. I actually gained more respect for him over this past week reading what he has to say. (and I didn't think I could admire him more) The man has returned from living in Portland and brought with him the experience and witness of what exactly turns a city into one of the most desirable places to live in the country.

Wow,

It seems very few of you are getting the point of my post.

First - I am not a preservationist. I am a rationalist. Rational because it IS rational to stop and think and evaluate before you destroy something that is valuable and irreplaceable.

Second - This post is not really about the casino issue. Though, I do not see why you can't have a casino and grain elevators at the same time.

Third - As I noted in my post all of the arguments you are using against the grain elevators have already and continue to be used against many other Buffalo treasures. Let us look at a few examples:

Larkin Administration Building - destroyed because is was derelict and unusable. This building was one of architectureis all time most important buildings and it was destroyed because of thoughtlessness and ignorance.

Guaranty Building - This masterpiece came within inches of being destroyed because they said it was ugly and no longer economically viable - They wanted to turn it into a parking lot. Well thanks to some intelligence and fore thought the building was saved and now houses a prestigious law firm. Perhaps you would rather have the parking lot?

EEC City Campus (old post office) Maybe you don't remember the raging debate about saving this building. Many thought it would be more economical to tear the old building down and replace it with some generic new building (have you seen the suburban ECC campuses? If you have you know what a mistake that would have been. Even after reuse of the Post Office was approved many still fought to remove its glorious tower. They said the tower was unstable and unsalvageable. They said it was unnecessary and served no function. And yet it was saved and aren't we all the richer for it? Sound familiar?

Do you see a trend here? Those advocating tearing things down in Buffalo have had their way for the last 50 years and what do they have to show for it? Nothing but parking lots and those precious shovel ready sites.

The tactic of removing everything unique in Buffalo has proven to be a monumental failure!!! Downtown is now over 50% parking. How many tourists are flocking to Buffalo to look at its massive parking lots? I suggest to you that there are far more people coming to see the grain elevators (even in their current state).

It was not long ago that getting something built downtown was like pulling teeth. It was something almost avoided. In those rare instances that someone proposed something, we would jump for joy. Back then it was thought that building anything is better than nothing at all. I remember when they took down a decent 5 story 19th century building to construct a less than imaginative burger King on main Street. No one shed a tear for that old building. If anything there was joy in the streets. Now, fast forward 20 years. That Burger King is now vacant and derelict. A stinging irony is that the older buildings directly across the street have been renovated.

Those advocating the destruction of Buffalois heritage in the name of progress have been getting their way for quite some time now. It is time that Buffalo start using its imagination and put to use the tremendous assets that have been served up on a platter. Larry Bartolomei had it exactly right in his response. Do not confuse that current state of these structures with their potential value to the community. We have already gone down that road with many of our treasures and the result is that they have been lost to us forever.

Steel, I think it is myself who threw the casino wrench into the post. I enmeshed it after just coming off reading the casino debate posts...for that I apologize.

You all need your f@#$ing heads checked...Doesnt it seem to anyone that all of you "preservationist" are always on the losing side? you are on the losing side in a losing city with a shrinking economy, and the highest taxes in the nation. Funny, we dont have these debates in Las Vegas. If a building is old and economically unviable we tear it down and build something new and beautiful!!! And the result? The best economy in the Nation's history. Largest growth in jobs, residents, overall economy etc etc etc. It is just a spectacular place with the greatest people (hundreds of whom are from Buffalo, it is like we have a whole contingent who couldnt be happier living here in Buffalo west. Good luck to you all but I read this daily and have just gotten so fed up with the saving of irrelevant structures. WOW!!!

VEGASbuff

There is only one LV and it is a special kind of city. Not every city is, should, or could be like Las Vegas. The comparison is absurd. for every Vegas I will toss into the argument a San Francisco and a Boston chock full of historic buildings. Personaly I would hope that Buffalo would model its self along the lines of those cities rather than LV.

I also think it interesting that with all Vegas has you still need to check in every day for your Buffalo fix.

VegasBuff

Buffalo's problems are a result of a dysfunctional state political structure of taxation and regulation. Buffalo's stagnation is NOT because a *few* relics from the past have been spared. Preservation alongside some Neveda style limited government is what is needed to jump start the Buffalo and Upstate economy. Put down the wrecking ball and focus your energies on reforming how NYS is managed in Albany.

Interesting read.... others might reconsider their views of these broken down building after reading this article.

tearing them down doesn't seem viable at all...

nobody wants to build here, why tear down when there is a ton of empty space...plus, its prohibitively expensive to do so...

commission artists to paint them and light them up until a reuse is found for them...

In three short sentances, peter scott has articulated the rationale for saving and an intermim reuse plan. Simple. Now lets get going on it.

BIA MOD

You post some nice exhibits but what have preservationists done to actually rehab or redevelop one of these buildings? Have they brought in the money? Are people beating down the doors to get at these gems? People just aren't buying the bogus "preservationist" rhetoric anymore!

what a great idea - we have blank canvases and sculptures all over down there. i think this would be a great topic of discussion for br's new art podcast - the pod squad. (i am one of them.) i'll get things going.

also, my earlier comment regarding the casino was not from a moralistic - but quality of life standpoint. although i realize that that was not steel's message - as he remarked, thus bringing things back; i couldn't leave that possibility of question in my intent.

all this feedback shows there's a lot of people aware and willing to make noise and likely make things happen. that didn't happen for a long time in buffalo. i can imagine things stand a great chance of working out well when there is this much interest. this is great - we can- and are doing it!

Short term Peter and West Coast are right. There is a reason all these grain elevators are still standing after decades of vacancy. They are built better than fortresses and cost several million dollars each to tear down. Just a few years ago a large concrete grain elevator in Tonawanda was torn down after decades of vacancy. It took politicians years to scrape together the $3-4 million just to get it done. That was tax payer money. Can we really afford to just tear all of Buffalo's grain elevators down on the public's scarce money? No, that would be pushing $100 million dollars. If we really want to change their appearance, a paint job would go a long way. This would change things faster than griping about it.

Who wants to work with me to get something painted? It could be a "Boost Buffalo" campaign. Turn a negative into a positive. The multi-story murals of stockyards in Ft. Worth, Texas are world famous. Emmeleia and I will work on the rock climbing destination too!

As for HO Oats, it may be incorporated into plans yet, since the demo cost is high (compared to the adjoining buildings) it may make sense for the Senecas. Today's announcement for design competition will inevitably include some reuse proposal from an architectural firm.

It seems like there is a misconception that preservationists are also philanthropists, with unlimited connections to developers and funding. They are mostly just volunteers who care enough to take a stand, whether you agree with them or not. The fact of the matter is that they DO play an important part in the preservation of Buffalo's built environment. I don't always agree that everything should be saved.

I can cite you an example of one preservationist who stepped in an saved a building from continued neglect from irresponsible ownership: in 1997, Scott Field purchased the Central Terminal for $1 and formed the Central Terminal Restoration Corporation. Since that time, Scott has been instrumental in aligning funding, a working board of directors and volunteer support for the ongoing care and preservation of the 523,000 sq. ft., 17 acre complex. Without Scott's initial care and vision, the building would surely be beyond hope by now. Amazing progress has been made in the past 8 years. We at the CTRC fully understand that our job is to preserve and to continue to make the building more development-ready. We cannot raise the millions it would take to restore it. But what we have done and continue to do, is amazing (if I do say so myself!).

Can preservationists do it alone? Can they do it for every blighted building deemed "worth saving"? Absolutely not. But by Scott's actions, it has been proven that one person can change the future of a building.

There is an interesting article on the Richardson complex in today's Buffalo News:

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060109/1056738.asp

It outlines the unique challenges that come with pulling down state funding. I can tell you that back in the early '90's, the late Sen. Moynihan earmarked $1 million for the preservation of the Central Terminal. It was 2002 before we were able to actually get our hands on any of that money to start sealing the windows. In the meantime, irreparable damage was being done. Just thinking about what damage could have been avoided at the terminal, and now the Richardson complex, makes me want to scream.

IMO, preserving the grain elevators, even one, is more of a daunting task than the terminal or the Richardson complex. Realistically, saving one of them as a museum/monument and surrounding it with a inner harbor park is about the best we can hope for. Until then, I like the idea of painting them and lighting them. They are still cool to look at.

Jeff-

I'd love to be involved in bringing a rock gym here; what can I do? feel free to contact me by private channel (ethancox@buffalorising.com)

Hopefully Brian Higgins is a regular reader of BRO. He is the one person who has shown vision and leadership on Buffalo's waterfront.

Here is an idea:

Imagine floating up the river. The Buffalo River after it has been transformed into a new and unique state park. The park has been created from the industrial artifacts of Buffalo's past. As you travel the river you pass the massive remains of the elevators but now they are not derelict they have been converted to monumental sculptures. Art and landscape on a massive scale in a linear park that connect neighborhoods deep into the city with the waterfront.

It has been noted that these elevators are built to last and that tearing them down costs millions. Why not spend millions making them into something people will marvel over. One mistake people continue to make is the assumption that they need to house some activity. As if they need to store grain of be converted to some uses like residential. Why can't they be used purely as a visual icon of history. Don't for get that the ancient ruins in Rome are not used for anything (for the most part) other than the enjoyment of their existence.

Why not use the Millions to stabilize the elevators, Remove all the rusting metal, seal them up, paint them, add new sculptural elements to them light them dramatically, and set them in a beautiful park environment. NOW, envision yourself on a night time cruise up the river. The reflections of spectacular lighting. Imagine a gigantic world class art installation carving its way deep into Buffalo. Imagine the view form the skyway as you see the dramatic landscape of fantastic forms lining the river. This is not a pipe dream it probably could be done for little more that what it costs to tear the buildings down.

Once you tear down the elevators you have nothing. Convert them into a unique and vital urban park, a park that would surely attract attention throughout the world and you have a new economic engine in the heart of Buffalo.

If you think and urban "art park" could not possibly do that take a close look at Chicago's spectacularly popular Millennium Park

Mr. E...hate to take it down this road but--your commentary is pompous. You're making assumptions that I would subscribe to 'cookie cutter' planning and development--and that it not the case. You--and others that want this rotting relic preserved are simply unrealistic. Although I appreciate their link to our city's industrial history, I don't see them as 'the' attraction that will spur more investor development and business growth--not to mention the fact that several will remain standing after H-O is demolished. They'll still be part of the Cobblestone scape. Where is the money going to come from to restore the H-O elevator? You tell me...

And if you read my initial thread in it's entirety--you'd note that I support preservation of what I believe are more 'valuable' architectural structures--including those that would be incorporated into the Cobblestone plan.

I'm sure Brian H is constantly monitoring this blog.

I'm sure Brian H is constantly monitoring this blog.

David this was beautifully written...I could envision this. Larry B. wrote earlier of Gasworks in Seattle, which despite the fact that Gasworks cannot claim the historical or architectural significance that the Grain Elevators hold claim to...it, nevertheless was a highly successful plan.

Dear BFLOROME,

Do you read your own posts Sir? Larry and Steel are of the minority on this one.(???) You are accusing me of being pompous. Rather it is quite short-sighted of yourself to assume that everyone reading this is 'cookie cuttered' into your opinion. Why yes, I have reread my posting, this is the clarification.

Mr. E...What I find funny is that there were only a few posts on this blog when I noted that both Steel and Larry where 'in the minority'...

It's amazing how passionate people are about this--on both sides of the fence...and that's a good thing. It demonstrates that people care about what's going on--and that should define 'New Buffalo.' And I respectfully challenged you with two (2) specific questions that you fail to answer with any substance: (1) Did you read my initial post? (2) Where will the money come from to restore the H-O mill?

Steel...you call yourself a 'rationalist.' Perhaps you should consider a move to being a 'realist.' What is so unreasonable about what I've proposed? My suggestion to concentrate preservation efforts on architectural landmarks that carry more significance couldn't be more timely. Any chance you read the front page of the Buffalo News today reagrding the Richardson Complex?

Now, for both of you...BR...this blog... should not turn into a hissyfit session just because someone disagrees with your position. It's purpose is to inspire meaningful communication of ideas. Lighten up!

I would love to see "some" of the grain elevators saved. I think they are unique and interesting buildings that harken back to Buffalo's Queen City of the Lakes days.

I think that painting the empty ones is a great idea to liven things up.

I do wonder though if the same people that believe H&O is a preservation site are using that issue for some other agenda..perhaps an anti-casino one.

Is the H&O historical..perhaps? Is it worth saving? Not in my book. This is one site where we should let progress run it natural course.

BFLOROME, David posted an excellant alternative for reuse of monies. Use the millions allotted for demolition...for creative restoration. Pitch in...help out here! Where were you thinking the monies should come from for demolition?

"I do wonder though if the same people that believe H&O is a preservation site are using that issue for some other agenda..perhaps an anti-casino one. Is the H&O historical..perhaps? Is it worth saving? Not in my book. This is one site where we should let progress run it natural course."

Some may be- I know a bunch of local church-based groups are involved, and it would be consistant with their tennents to oppose gambling; if you have a problem with that, you'll have to take it up with the churches.

As for other anti-casino activists, I think they simply disagree with you over whether a casino constitutes progress. They thus are "using" preservation issues to impeed that 'progress', which is one of the only means available, given that, (I can't stress this enough), the deal was made in Albany with no attempt to assess the will of the people directly affected: Us.

Perhaps because it was thought that it might not fly if we got to vote on it? I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Jeff, what about getting local artists, designers and architects involved? This could be a great project for art and design students as well. Mark Goldman's got a group of urban planning students involved in creating ideas to turn Wadsworth Street into a worthy gateway to Allentown. I believe it's a class Brad Wales teaches. This concept might work well here!!

BFLOROME,

You find it funny that their was only a "few postings" on the board before you noted Larry and Steel were in the minority here?

I find this disturbing, the actual count is fourteen, and this hardly would constitute "a few". The red flags automatically go up, and the determination to believe in any of your further writings, is pretty well under question. Exaggerations are basically lies, and only fools will give them credence, to their eventual demise. There's plenty of great evidence on both sides of this debate, and all of it deserves proper airing, without the need to exaggerate anything, in even the smallest way. Is this just about one side 'winning'. I choose to think not. How can we turn these 'problem areas' into win/win results for all. Funding is not the issue, if, the monies can be generated by future tax revenues being collected on some buildings, and structures being salvaged, and put to use. The infrastructure is already here for the most part, and just needs to be repaired. Those of us, with the capacity to bring the vision, into focus, for all to see, and judge, for themselves, through brainstorming ideas on BR, already have the gist on the negatives we face, and all the expounding on them is completely pointless. What are the possibilities, aside from demolishing these places (a no brainer), wherein they could be revitalized and 'born again'. The thousands of structures, simply stagnating, many admittedly beyond repair, but some are. These are the jewels of our past that deserve our greatest care, and our best decision processess, before determining removal. Expanding on the possibilities, and giving proper mourning to the losses, are our greatest assets, and is the drive needed to advance this city. We also have the examples of countless other metropolitan areas that were even worse than Buffalo, that were transformed famously, and profitably. Those are the miracle's that drive us all, in the 'minority', to behave so irrationally, and cling to our 'unrealistic' belief systems. Could this really be possible? I am, for one, willing to bet my life,and livelyhood on it. Now with such an enormous wager being placed, what need do I have to attend a casino, that is being unfairly borne upon the best part of this city, to 'satisfy' the few, who have very, very little to risk. It's chump 'change'.

It is clear that your underlying agenda is simply anti-casino.

If not, where were all you 'grain mill affecianados' 1...3...or ...5 years ago?

I stand by my suggestion that there are other more valuable and architecturally significant structures that are worth renovating and developing that will create a healthy mix of old and new... in 'New Cobblestone'...

Ciao...

I was in Seattle, marvelling at the insight of the people, who preserved every possible inch of the old city ( even the underground city is still intact). The only structure demolished, was the Kingdome, a much recent construct, and that was only due to poor workmanship, and bullshit contractors, and the people got real sick of chunks of concrete falling into their beers, and upon their heads, while watching the Mariners lose.. Those old pre-turn of the century buildings are all, in the now, leasing at a premium. Many have endured several major earthquakes and should have been condemned, and razed long ago. It was an unthinkable option for that to be allowed to happen. They were restored, not just once, but,time after time, and are still operational. Because people cared, and stood with them.

Plenty of ideas have been offered to the City of Buffalo, not much being done by them. It's up to us 'Goddam Obstructionists' to wake up the dead if we must, to get some things moving again and in the right and fair direction. I could give a damn about a casino being built, just keep it out of my face when I am downtown enjoying the scenery and the atmosphere. Give me a choice, and a voice, to object to it, or embrace it. We elected 'officials' to represent our best interests, and if there is a conflict, such as this casino, it should have been voted in, or out, by us, as citizens. Especially due to the circumstances surrounding the losses of taxable revenues, and the many other shortfalls this 'deal' brings. As for your suggestion, where did I digress? I stated in part.....

...if, some of these structures are irrepairable, they should be taken down, yet.....

...Some .......are.........salvageable.......

Your antagonistic attitude, and projections, are a real sad state to be in, but it's your choice, you'll never dim my viewpoints, they have been set in stone, long ago..,

Have a nice day !

I don't know where you're looking Mr. E...but there are a lot of cool, positive entrepreneur-inspired developments going on in OUR city. We don't need to be loud-mouthed obstructionists to make things happen. We need to lead, be creative, embrace positive change, stand up for our neighborhoods, and develop a UNIFIED voice that will collectively hold the politicians accountable. And it's laughable if you trust that the majority of elected officials have our 'best interests' in mind. They don't. The Casino is coming...get over it. It does not have to be the focal point of the Cobblestone District. We have to move forward and work to find ways to to drive restoration and development of valuable architecture that will create critical mass, ownership, and drive business growth.

oh

OK but still...You have to admit it is interesting that these elevators played a major part in setting the aesthetic direction of world architecture for the last 70 years.

I have to agree with those calling for maybe saving a FEW of the NICER, MORE SOLID ONES, as a curiosity, and TEARING DOWN these rat infested eyesores that are a DANGER to everyone.

With some to the posts, I can't believe you are talking about these UGLY ROTTING GRAIN ELEVATORS! With that same logic of "save everything" no matter how UGLY they are, I am surprised you all weren't protesting the demolition of the Bethlehem Steel Works! Now saving THAT monstrosity would have been a beaut to drive past daily as I used to do! (remember driving thru all that ifragranti ORANGE smoke past the Skyway at smokestack level?)

People, THEY'RE UGLY! BUTT UGLY! DAMN UGLY! There should be a picture of them beside the word "ugly" in the dictionary, for godis sake!

These are NOT the same as the Larkin Building, City Hall, or even the Elk Terminal Lofts!

Did you know that MEDEVIL TORTURE CHAMBERS and PRISONS, and the GAS CHAMBERS are also featured and studied in architectural history books? Just because something is studied and contained in history books, does not make them worthy of emulation and preservation.

There are plenty of structures in Buffalo that are worth of your efforts to save, and I support those.

But not these!

And besides, have any of you actually SEEN any of the iadaptive reusedi grain elevators that have been turned into apartments or hotels? They are the prime example of BAD TASTE and KITCH and make the original derelict structures that should have been torn down look good by comparison!

And for all your edification and information, not all casinos are ugly n look at the Bellagio and the Wynn in Las Vegas, as well as any neighborhood casino like Green Valley Ranch in Henderson, a suburb of Las Vegas n they are MAGNETS that people from the surrounding community SEEK OUT and SHOW WITH PRIDE! They are BEAUTIFUL!

I would bet my life and entire worth that the Senecas will NOT be building an eyesore.

Now, as far as the iconcepti of a icasinoi is concerned, as opposed to the ibuildingi, thatis another story, and I donit think it will be a good thing, socially, for Buffalo, or any other similar rust-belt city.

Larry Bartolomei and Jeff Brennen and others give us examples of really beautiful structures that were preserved, and before I went to these examples, I waited with great anticipation to seeing how beautiful GRAIN ELEVATORS were in their reused state!

BUT THEY ARE NOT - ANY OF THEM n AN UGLY GRAIN ELEVATOR!

We are talking about UGLY GRAIN ELEVATORS here people, not some post industrial, late nineteenth century factory or car barn!

THEY ARE NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM SIMILAR SUBJECTS!

Sorry to break it to you guys, these examples lend NOTHING to the discussion at hand.

And Steel, I admire your work and posts on almost all other subjects, but on this one, but I canit believe you are really desiring to force people to live, work and visit right beside one of these eyesores!

BIA MOD:

Nice try, but no sale.

1992 not 11th hour? - in whose book?

You made it sound like people were working on this since the 1950's or 60's.

Sorry to break it to you, but 1992 to IS "11th hour".

But you at least made me laugh for the first time today!