Buffalo Rising Online

what is the long term plan for the site? Is it part of the Medical District masterplan?

Cute house... too far gone.. did you honestly think that the rest of the parking there was going to turned around into something else?? As far as the visiting professors the goal is to impress... I wouldn't be impressed as a visiting professor if I was put up in this place

Oh Queenseyes,

Don't you see that this demo is a success on multiple levels. It simultaneously increases parking space while reducing the need for parking by eliminating the need to come here.

Put in a bike rack and we will all be happier...

We are losing jobs, halting projects, and watching our Main Street become even more of a ghost town everyday, but we are more concerned about one neglected and vacant house in a blighted part of the city, that is being targeted for gentrification and renewal.

What is the problem, is it because this was part of the UB project, or because it is slated to be a (GOD F..ING FORBID) a parking lot?

Are you looking for another flurry of Panos / Atwater posts to boost readership and posting? C'mon already. Let's focus on a real issue for a change.

The Preservation Board refused to follow the procedures then Commissioner Tobe laid out to preserve the structure. They failed, not the City. Reactive vs. proactive. The site is slated for new construction. Ship some of the bricks to Steel and can go build something out west.

Too bad that M Wile building got renovated a few years back. That could have made a great parking lot.

Well I have talked to the inspector for this property and they said it was actually in good condition and that the former owner made an effort to maintain the structure much better than most others in similar situations. That being said, the tenants could have caused their own problems as this was used as a rooming house for years, but that had nothing to do with actual building itself.

Removing the building doesn't solve the problem of the people who were in it. Think East Side.... just because you demolish structures which are the effects of the problem doesn't mean you solve the problem that caused it.. In fact the problem just moves somewhere else. Near East Side -> Polonia -> Upper East Side -> University Heights -> Cheektowaga.... demolition doesn’t solve anything

That being said, it is a shame to loose this building as there are very few houses like this left in the city especially in downtown. (any more at all in downtown?) BUT this is most likely the site of a future building... so if this structure needed to come down to help build a larger building over much more of the parking lot and expand UB's presence downtown... then it wasn't for naught.

I do wish that it could have been moved… there are a lot of empty lands in nicer neighborhoods that would have absorbed this building quite nicely. Newell I have a bunch of pictures of this structure if you were interested.

whynot...as filled with gloom as you want to be...i hate to burst your bubble.... http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/10/27/daily26.html

The new Education Opp. Center is supposed to go on the lot east of the M. Wile building (this is south). The current parking lot around this house is likely to remain parking for some time.

my apologies whynot..appears you werent being as gloomy as i thought on first read of your post...guess i just assumed it based on most people's attitude here

The folks who pushed forward this demolition, I am sure, are not so dumb that they needed a Preservation Plan to guide them and tell them this was an important building.

Each time It is like getting slugged in the stomach.

This building is a fine example of the Italianate style and could have been re-used. The condition inside is not a factor when considering redevelopement as the uninformed one claims. These are the very structures that attract people to Buffalo and make possible the gentrification that will eventually save this city.

Reading this just made me a little sick. Excuse me.............

EVERY BUILDING THAT WAS BUILT 100 YEARS AGO IS NOT A WORK OF ART!!!!!!!! YOU CANT SALVAGE EVERYTHING IN THIS CITY AND STILL EXPECT ANYTHING TO CHANGE

Link to 360 degree SkyWay view

It looks like approximately 20 new parking spaces. 20 spaces x $5 per day = $100.00 per day x 20 days per month = $2000.00 per month in parking value.

Personally, I think this house could have been worth much more.

To Kook and New Buff,

Parking lot = Progress? WOW you must think Buffalo has made a lot of progress over the last 40 years!

I understand there was a willing buyer, a former resident of the building, who offered to purchase the building and restore it. The Preservation Board recommended not to demolish it for parking, which is the immediate plan. How much more a proactive stance is required to save buildings like this?

At least we know now the Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus is willing to flout the community, despite their ridiculous public meetings and dough-nut sessions.

The bigger issue for small residential buildings like this would be for the city to have a fund that could relocate a building such as this to a historic preservation district where it would not only fit but be valuable and be worth restoring. There are empty lots in the west village and westside that could use infill with a building like this...

Its the city's future and its our future...unless there is a choice to move a building the choice as the footprint of downtown expands is demolition for many small residential homes.

Atleast with single or multiple story historic structures downtown there is the choice of keeping the facade and demolishing the rear of the building to rebuild a multi-story building behind it....often with fits fine with the call for setbacks after the 4th floor.

We must come up with options....otherwise we face black and white choices.

What a waste. Looked like a cool house

Link to 360 degree SkyWay view

Ok. I have the correct settings for this link now. (My last attempt displayed the Buffalo News. HAHAAHAAHA)

Click on BirdsEye button and use the zoom control. You can click on each compass point and see all four sides of the building.

New Buff,

There is no plan for new build on this site.

http://www.buffalo.edu/ub2020/plan/phase2_capital_downtown.html

making up information does not make this new parking lot into exciting progress.

I find it funny and ironic that the same people who bitch that UB should be downtown complain when UB takes steps to expand downtown. Imagine the reaction if UB had to demolish a few old structures to make new classroom buildings. We would jump for joy that something would be moving from the evil world of Amherst to the promised land of Buffalo, but we would be conflicted that it came at the expense of a historic outhouse.

I agree with Aloha, the people at UB know what they are doing and they should have been given the courtesy to comment before Queenseyes condemned them for taking down this house.

BTW, there was a demolition at 390 Louisiana Street near South Park yesterday afternoon. This was a turn of the century brick house as well. Where is the uproar and where were the preservationists?

BRO should now be called Buffalo Demolition. Give it a rest, buildings come down every day in every city, how many more articles do we have to see about some old building that nobody was using for 50 years that was demolished. No wonder Buffalo is a state of frozen progress.

I find it funny and ironic that the same people who bitch about preservation fail to see that it has been the most positive force in the city of Buffalo. Just about every decent neighborhood has benefited from the investmest of money, time, and energy of those with an appreciation for our old homes and buildings. Just because some cannot see the potential doesn't mean it isn't there. The future is in the demand for these unique buildings and we cannot afford to continue to demolish our best assets.

Just wait.

The Trico factory may be next on the medical campus execution list.

Over our dead bodies?

Bike racks are always on topic here at BRO!

This home could have been moved somewhere nearby. Moving structures is pretty routine and has been going on since the early days of Buffalo.

Bike racks, Curb Cuts, and Built to the curb are the hot button issues facing Buffalo.

So you have preservation areas which this area is not, and historic landmark status which can be used to save buildings from the wrecking ball. Why didn't anyone file the paperwork to try to save this building far in advance?

Could it be that the preservation community works in a piecemeal fashion without a viable strategy how it is actually going to save every single building in this town given the realities? Is there a single property in the city that should not be demolished? Even if the greater good trumps single-mindedness? Time to call an attorney

No context? Right we demolished whole neighborhoods of these kinds of buildings. Wouldn't that be an asset to have now? Several blocks of these kinds of buildings in our downtown for people live in downtown. Want home ownership in downtown... well we demolished it.

It isn't progress to demolish things. If that was the case, then the east side would be the most progressive and exciting part of this city.. It isn't sorry to burst your bubble, but the only places that people actually want to go in this town are the exact places where demolitions were limited or restricted over the years. That is why preservation works. EV, Allentown, West Village, North Buffalo, Parkside are without a doubt Buffalo's most stable and attractive neighborhoods BECAUSE demolition was NOT happening. Once you start demolishing homes neighborhoods values drop, hope disappears and No One will invest anymore because the future is uncertain.

Sorry to break the news kooks and New Buf..

buffaloed- Moving a building is not as expensive when there is a sea of parking surrounding it. The money spent on demolition could have partially offset the cost to move this structure. Foundations are not cost prohibitive and UB has the resources and could have involved their architecture/engineering departments.

blackrocklifer - A few questions: 1) Who would fund the movement of this building?

2) Where would we move it to?

3) Would UB own the building when moved or basically pay for the relocation so someone else could by it a few blocks away?

4) There has been no interest in this building for a few years, why the sudden interest now?

5) Will we make this a standard policy that the owner of a building must confer with the (?) to ensure that the building couldn't be relocated and resused somewhere else in the city? What is the timeline for finding a reuse, will the owner have to secure a new use for the building or will we basically be shuffling the houses around the city anytime we want to clear property to build something new?

6) Should we assess the feasibility of all abandoned and blighted structures and relocate them to better neighborhoods if possible? Or are we just targeting structures that involve UB and Parking lots?

whynot- 1. UB, offset by the money spent on demolition. 2.To an area nearby that still has density. 3. UB could sell the building or re-use. 4.This building was on the tax rolls and in use until recently. 5.Good idea, look at options before demo. 6. Another good idea, I have long advocated that we assess our building stock and protect those with the potential/ viability.

blackrocklifer - As a follow-up:

So this should be a standard practice for all structures, that the owner of the structure must seek relocation and reuse of the building instead of demolition. The owner must fund the relocation of the building, and by extension the purchase of the property that the structure will relocate to, and is now responsible for the old structure on the new property unless a buyer is identified ahead of time. The owner of the property is now responsible for taxes and upkeep on both properties, even though they were only interested in the first property for a specific purpose when purchased.

is this correct? Does this apply to all buildings or just houses?

whynot-My point was- look at all options before demo and make the community aware of plans so interested parties have a chance to consider. Assess our building stock to protect those with the most potential/ viability. I don't advocate to save every structure in Buffalo but this house was worth the effort.

blackrocklifer - Do you think that this will lead towards more NIMBYism and obstructionist lawsuits for developers.

As far as assessment of building stock, why isn't this being done ahead of time? I would imagine that this would be a job of the City, the various preservationist entities, and the local districts. Why don't we have a list of houses that are historically significant or at risk of losing? Why can't I go to a website and find a house that really needs investment and some TLC. It seems that the scattershot and / or knee jerk approaches contributes to the perception that the Preservationists are reactive and disorganized in their approach.

What would it take to make this happen?

Whynot- We are working on just such a project here in Black Rock. We are moving forward in the creation of a Historic District in the area of Amherst and East St and have developed a list of buildings and homes worthy of preservation. This project has been in cooperation with the City of Buffalo Office of Strategic Planning and the Black Rock- Riverside Good Neighbors Planning Association. Similar efforts are underway in the Riverside and Grant-Amherst neighborhoods as well.

NewBuffalo- There is no movement "with a mentality of preserving EVERTHING Buffalo" as you and others claim. Preservation is protecting the structures that are significant from shortsighted decisions made by those without the ability to recognize their value and potential.

The issues about the following from BRLifer are the meanings of "significant" and "short sighted", and how to realistically assess "value and potential".

'Preservation is protecting the structures that are significant from shortsighted decisions made by those without the ability to recognize their value and potential.'

For some around here (example QE, BRLifer, sbrof, Teilman, chrishawley, Justin), it does look to me that even if not 100% it is pretty much every old building in Buffalo that can and must be saved in their way of discussing things.

BRLifer - Are there any examples in the past of when any of those folks ever wrote here (or in Teilman's case ever said publicly) "Yes this old building is fine to demolish. It's nice but not significant enough to make a big deal over and it would be a long time from now, if ever, that it made sense for reuse." ?

Maybe there were some buildings for which they say it's fine to demolish and I didn't see it, but I don't remember it ever happening. Maybe they favor demolishing the Aud, so that might be one example but that one's a no-brainer. How about any ordinary sized buildings?

Considering all that, NewBuffalo's characterization about "preserving EVERYTHING" doen't seem an extreme exaggeration. Every topic can have zealots - including preservation in Buffalo. I've noticed at least one of those guys like to toss out "over our dead bodies" about saving old buildings such as was said about the old Trico windshield wiper factory in the 20:43 comment way above here. I think someone else said "over my dead body" about the Bailey-Delavan church. If that's not zealotry, what is? Why is it important that both of Buffalo's two old windshield wiper factories be preserved forever until the end of time? Over dead bodies even? Yeah, right, great.

The way BRLifer wrote the above sentence I quoted sounds reasonable by itself. However after observing how some of you guys so extremely interpret significant and short sighted, and how emotionally some people can asses value and potential, it doesn't sound reasonable at all.

About this particular house, buffaloed made very good comments about how its surroundings made it a very unlikely candidate for residential rehab and lack of demand makes it very unlikely anyone would have moved it when supply and demand are so out of whack around here.

Atwater- Homes and buildings are be demolished on a regular basis throughout the city of Buffalo. Those that turn up on BRO or other media are the lucky ones. I know of no effort to save every old structure and in fact see many that are worthy yet ignored. Built environment is an asset that is hard to quanify. Other cities have recognized this value and see the long term benefit of preservation, I hope we don't "demolish" our way out of the chance to have a better future.

I know of no efforts to coordinate the listing and purchase of these old structures. It seems the only time we hear about them is when they are destroyed and by then it is too late. Even on the West Side, where structures are demo'ed almost every day, where is the coordination from the community?

This house was on the radar for demolition for months. Permits were filed, petitions were answered, and the preservationists were notified, yet nothing was done until AFTER the house was taken down. I've said this before and yet no one can answer. Stop bitching about the "destruction of these historically significant houses" and put some energy into getting them sold, or moved, or mothballed before it is too late.

If this is a historically significant "Italianate Structure" then let's get the others that are at risk on the radar so someone can invest in them. You might make some progress in this fight if you get your shit together.

atwater --

I'm not sure if I belong among your gallery of rogues, but I'll say that I don't think this demolition is such a big deal. The structure isn't that significant, it's increasingly out of character with its area, and it's going as part of an important long term investment by UB.

But I don't think there's anything wrong with a "save everything" stance, for two reasons. First, even those who advocate that stance are really only talking about saving a fraction of what is being lost. Most demolition happens under the radar, with noone raising a fuss. It's only the stuff that is important or valuable enough to get people motivated that ever gets any attention. And then you have to take into account that, although buildings are often saved, preservation efforts often fail. So unless preservationists take a zealous stance, it's hard to see how much of anything will get saved at all.

allfit- Here in Black Rock we have taken a proactive approach. In working to establish a historic district we did an assessment of our housing/ commercial stock. Considering historic significance, condition, and viability we have a plan for the future. Our community is small but still requires a lot of hard work and commitment just to keep from losing ground. To keep an eye on what's happening all over the city would require a huge effort and must be the responsiibilty of each neighborhood. I don't know if this demo "was on the radar for months" but can say that I have seen many demo's done "under the radar" to avoid any chance of debate and possible re-use.

So you have a "historic district", that will basically prevent someone from tearing down or changing the structure. What are you doing to secure buyers for properties, to bring awareness to buildings like the Livery, or other historically significant buildings in your area. How will an investor be able to easily locate a house or building in your area that could use their time, money, and vision? What are the larger scale efforts underway outside of Blackrock? Should we expect potential buyers to chat with every neighborhood association and community interest group to find out what houses are in danger of demolition, or will we get our act together as a City and have a unified plan for once?

The house above was on the docket for demolition for over 4 months, look at the City records.

allfit- We have worked for years to "secure buyers for properties" and have had some success. We advocate for our neighborhood whenever possible and have been aggressive in our effort to bring "awareness" to the potential that exists here. There is a bus tour and walking tour that has introduced many to our once under appreciated area. We reach out to "investors and potential buyers " and again, have had some success. As for the "historically significant buildings" in Black Rock we are aware and diligent in protecting the unique and trulty historic built environment that will eventually prove to be a valuable asset.