Buffalo Rising Online

Let me guess ! The city will do NOTHING ! Then we can talk about this vacant /decaying/neglected area for years to come. Woo Hoo

LOOKOUT!! Here come the preservationists , treehuggers and wannabe architects!! HISTORY has shown us we can KISS this project GOODBYE !!!

The fact that parking is wanted for the development of 180 new units should be of no surprise to anyone and shame on BRO for the dire tone of this post. Surface lots are certainly a problem around here, and we can bitch about parking like nowhere else, but parking ramps can be done well, and are not necessarily the enemy. The options are 180 new units (occupied with people) and a new parking facility (for their cars) or a rotting, dangerous building with no new investment, new people or cars. Bring the ramp!

I have faith that Tobe will pull this one off without a hitch. His preservation awareness is keen and his desire to see this project happen is taken personally.

Tearing down the AM&A's warehouse would be a terrible thing. Converting this building to residences and retail should be included in the scope of the entire project. There is room in the middle of the block where the city should construct a ramp for the residents of this area. This parking will also be needed for the Seneca Paper building conversion which is a about to start. Another surface lot would destroy the downtown fell that area now has.

No dont demolish anything....its easier to offer some parking spaces in municipal garages as an incentive than to put other forms of assistance on the table like low interest loans, tax subsidies, grants, etc.

We have already demolished to much....and demolition should be the last resort.

In the meantime we should be doing everything possible to encourage more new builds to have underground parking.

I agree with Sesen that Tobe will take all the factors into consideration and try to come up with a good solution. Things are improving at City Hall.

I think the tone of WCP's post was right on target - it's a conundrum. I can't blame the developer for wanting more parking to make his project viable, but we certainly don't need any more surface parking.

As far as "here comes the preservationists" - I'm a preservationist and I see the need to consider the request seriously. In order to continue the downtown resurgence that is rescuing building after building we need to make the projects viable and successful - which does mean making reasonable concessions (I feel the need to repeat the rword reasonable). It's no different than understanding that saving the stronger parts of the East Side means losing some of the decimated areas to land banking.

Most preservations in Buffalo are like most people in Buffalo - more reactive than pro-active (something that I think is starting to change across all of Buffalo) - but they have saved a lot of important buildings and they deserve more credit than they tend to get. Polarizing the issue isn't going to help move it forward.

This is a serious dilemma that will require real consideration. Any experts on underground parking out there?

Harvey

There's no reason why everyone can't get what they want here. The developer is going to need parking to market the property. He isn't, as far as I know, asking to demolish the warehouse in order to make a surface lot. It would be an appropriate use of city resources to offer spaces in municipal garages as a development incentive. There's also no reason why a pleasing urban appropriate garage (with first floor retail) couldn't be built to target current and coming developments in this area.

The first two replies here make no sense to me... what does leaving vacant buildings in their deplorable state have to do with militant environmentalists or preservationists?

This isn't new construction or replacing wetlands.... it is rehab and reuse.

Any and every residential project proposed or unveiled for downtown Buffalo will face the same quandary, or "conundrum" as WCP put it. Where will homeowners or tenants place their vehicles? We can make any wistful comparison we want to big cities such as NYC or Toronto, but we are still a vehicle driven society here in Buffalo. People love their cars, people need their cars and the public transit infrastructure in our city is insufficient to meet most people's needs.

Is there actually a plan in place which inventories all the parking avaiable downtown, maps it out and then determines anticipated needs? Seems to me that a "Marshall Plan" of sorts which would strategically place parking facilities in geocentric locations and offer free or cheap parking to visitors and residents would be the answer.

I am not the expert here, but certainly there might be those who understand the bigger picture better than I do.

This story outlines the general problem that downtown faces as far as becoming a "real city"-like urban core.

It's a cold hard reality that as downtown gains more residential units without new employment, each new resident will want an on-premises parking spot of their own. Walkable amenities are far too lacking for people paying $1,500/month to park their cars any considerable distance from their unit.

For every nice renovated building, there will be an ugly parking lot behind it. See IS Lofts/Ellicott commons. See Ansonia center. See Holling Place. ect, ect. As long as there is space for EVERYONE to have a parking spot of their own, downtown will continue to be too hollow and empty to support a real urban dynamic.

Basically with the new DT Buffalo "loft" craze, what's being created is "urban-themed" lifestyle living downtown without the benefits of a real 24/hr urban environment. Residents still have to drive nearly everywhere for normal day-to-day errands. Many even have to reverse-commute to the burbs, because that's where the majority of the region's white collar jobs are.

At the current rate of developers scattering all their projects at different far-flung corners of downtown, (because developers like Rocco Termini will only renovate buildings they can milk massive subsidies and grants out of) it will take 20 years before there are enough walkable amenities that "loft" residents might consider leaving the car in a garage 5 blocks away or perhaps even give up driving.

When the downtown novelty wears off, I hope developers will smarten up and pour investment into area like Allentown and EV where somewhat of a critical mass of people and amenities already exist. Oh wait, then there will be NIMBYs, my bad....

Isn't there a tunnel under Washington St. from the main building to the warehouse ?? This would certainly make the warehouse site the perfect location for parking, providing sheltered walking for people going to and from their cars. I can't think of the warehouse as a thing of beauty but if it is to be retained, could it be reinforced and converted to a multiple level parking garage ?

Is'nt there a surface lot between the Lafayette Hotel and the old wearhouse? Why not build a unique shaped parking ramp on this lot with first floor retail. This way, your filling in a street scape and still have room for new business and services. A win-win....Oh, wait, what am I talking about, this is Buffalo not NYC....Forget what I just said, it'll never happen in this back woods town. More surface lots is what's more likely to come or another parking ramp across of another parking ramp with no first floor acitivity...Now that sounds more like Buffalo's way of thinking...

What kind of developer buys a building without a plan for the entire project? Isn't that called due diligence? What's the next problem?

I'm not one of them preservation groupies, BUT, I'd rather see these buildings renovated than see ANOTHER PARKING RAMP go up. We have one right across the street (just expanded in the last few years). And a big surface lot in the middle of this block- build a mix-use Ramp there. Why destroy more of our street scape?

Joe D why such an ignorant comment about preservationists?

Becuase that's Joe D's MO.

If I am not mistaken, diagonally to the south east of the AM&A's building, and directly to the east of the M&T building is the Adam's parking ramp. I assume this ramp is mainly supplying parking for the tenants of the M&T Bank Building. Most of that parking is daytime use. Which means, that other than for downtown special events, the ramp (which I believe is at least 10 stories high), has plently of capacity to provide for residents of the AM&A's project. Assuming a fair percentage of the residents will drive to work in the morning. All of this is just a guess, but it makes sense. I am sure it is not perfect, but we need to get better utilization of the ramps. Let's make sure they are filled during the day with downtown office workers, and filled at night with downtown residents.

A majority of the citizens of BUFFALO would like to see the city develop and thrive, become economically important in the northeast..somewhat similar to the greatness that Buffalo once was. OTHERS it seems want the city to remain status quo..saving every building, dictating what and what shouldnt be with SOMEONE ELSES money. DEVELOPERS have come and gone..some even go as far as present proposals only to have (a minority) of those who think they know for the rest, whats right and whats wrong with everything and every building in Buffalo. TO these er... preservationists, CHANGE is a four letter word. SENSATIONALIZED CRITICIZMS (news media) by these few have STOPPED and/or prevented out elected officials from sometimes being pro development. It has become so PETTY that even the use of the type of siding on a house to be built on a ONCE VACANT LOT is criticized by some who have a PERSONAL DISLIKE for the type of material it is. Until attitudes of those 'FEW' change, Buffalo will continue to lose it's tax base. only a few developments passing the scrutiny of those few who seem to know what's best for all will be build. Developers will AVOID Buffalo like the plague, unlike other rustbelt cities who have seemed to bounce back. WHY is it Buffalo seems to be lacking in it's revival. The big money developers are now just coming around..but not for long when they see the others step back due to the less than cooperative atmosphere that the city seems to have. They'll take their money and development to where the citizens have some type of appreciation for the risk and investment they are able to give. WAKE UP and show some constraint, encouragement to these developers. NOT every building can be saved. ANF FINALLY ... YES STEEL and EDWARD ST., YOU BOTH may not like my sarcasm and that of other critics, but many of us are tired of those few who seldom seem to find positive aspects on any development, whether it be downtown or some barren vacant lot neighborhood.

Joe D,

Please list all these developments that have been stopped by preservationists and also please list all the parking lots that have been created in the name of development and explain how the city has benefited from the vast sprawl of parking that has consumed so much of downtown. Please fill us in as to how in any reasonable way you can claim that anything near every building has been saved when over fifty percent of downtown has been eliminated.

Please Joe D,enlighten me as to how we would have been so much better off if we had not saved the Gurantee building, Martin House, The Old Post Office (ECC), All of Allentown, Granite Works, Squire Mansion, The Mansion Hotel, The Theater District, Webb Building, Gray Stone Hotel, The West Village, Millionaires row on Delaware, the Connecticut Street Armory and numerous others. Please tell me how a parking lot would have been much better for the city in place of these.

I am so sick of that stupid Rush Limbaugh-esque phrase "we can't save everything"..On what planet are you living? Look around you...almost nothing has been or is being saved. Buffalo's recent development has come at the hands of preservation, not at the hands of those who have pushed to eliminate everything over the last 50 years. On what basis can you possibly defend that ancient and discredited urban renal concept which included demolishing everything. Buffalo's most economically sound neighborhoods are the neighborhoods with well cared for dense historic urban fabric. Some of the most cherished cities in this nation are filled with dense intact well cared for historic neighborhoods. Buffalo can not afford to throw away its history for the sake of a parking lot or the idea that if it looks like Phoenix all of its economic problems will be solved.

Joe D, I hate to break your bubble but the status quo is to demolish and wait for development. Preservation is the new economic engine that has driven renewal in Buffalo not your coveted parking lots and strip malls.

Elmwood Village Hotel, Panos new building, any Waterfront development, Bass Pro, Greystone, Calumet, ...shall I continue STEEL???

This project is a guaranteed go. Remediation work begins soon. The developer is very, very credible.

Parking solutions can be found any number of ways. I can't imagine the City allowing the warehouses to go down for that purpose. 180 apartments means 180 parking spaces maximum for reasonable access to cars. We can have a smaller parking ratio with Metro Rail at the front door step and a broader transit system basically wrapping around the entire site.

There was some talk from Taylor of having parking in the basement of the main department store building, which is four stories deep, but it may be an expensive conversion. Another floor could be added to the Adams ramp. The City owns a lot on Ellicott and Clinton which is *massive* and could accomodate any number of uses, including parking. Two underground parking spots may cost as much as the apartment unit itself in contruction costs, as each spot now runs about $70,000 for typical underground ramps.

Either way, I am glad I was personally involved in advocating against this brilliant complex from being demolished. People will look back and say it was the right idea at the right time.

Teal,

Yes please do expand on this list:

Elmwood hotel...deed restrictions stopped the project not preservationists and preservationists did not even attempt to block the project neighbors with personal interests at stake did

Exactly what waterfront development has been blocked by preservationists? all the building [ I repeat ALL the buildings] have already been demolished on the waterfront. We are now planning fake historic replacements for the buildings that were demolished.

Bass Pro. Huh? in what way have preservationists stopped this project. Last time I looked that was because BP would not sign the deal.

Greystone. Huh? Last I heard development would be starting soon under new ownership. Unless of course you are saying that preservationists stopped if from becoming a parking lot so that the city could have saved from having beautiful building filled with people as is currently going to happen.

Calumet. Huh? In what way did preservationists block anything to do with this building. Of course if the demo crowd had had their way with this one we may never have seen the revival of Chippawa Street (since it centered on this one building)

Panos. I will give you that one... or on second thought no. The preservationists have not blocked Pano from building a new structure. They have blocked him from building a parking lot on the site of a very valuable historic and unique house. Thing is it looks like you will get your wish. This formerly useful and irreplaceable building WILL soon be filled with 10 spanking new parking spaces and those 10 people will be able to park without setting a foot on city sidewalks or passing any other business on Elmwood. That should really propell Buffalo into the top tier of American cities

Is this the best you can do ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

I don't get it. There are hundreds and hundreds of covered parking spots a few dozen feet from the AM&A's store in the Adams ramp. That's 'Adams' as in the first 'A' in AM&A's. I'm sure something can be worked out. It's about time we used these ramps 24-hours too. I have friends in a pricey Pittsburgh loft and they have to buy a monthly pass just like everyone else to park in a ramp across the street. Guess what? It works! The city of Buffalo has already taken care of this parking problem by building a 10-story ramp across the street from the building. Done.

Wow has this debate degenerated!

As far as the AM&A's project is concerned, negotiating for parking capacity with the Eagle Ramp, or the surface lot on Ellicott/Clinton, is a complete no brainer.

Game, set and match to STEEL.

Thanks all for playing.

Chris Hawley, are you f*&^ing MORON? You actually are going to post and say you really don't think the city will allow these old buildings be torn down for parking? Come on, of course they will allow it. They always do. They finally had a buyer after 6 years on the market, the city is desperate for something to get done. If it means more parking sacrifice, you should know by now the city will approve it. They always do. So get your head of the gutter Chris and smell that trash, your in Buffalo, crap like this happens.

Does anyone know why the former Burger King on Main St. has remained abandoned for so many years? Why is there so much urban blight across from the old LL Berger building? That would be a neighbor to the new apt. building currently in planning stages. Who would want to live near that? That section of Main St. needs major attention and renovation. It bafffles me why it sits dormant year after year. Couldn't some investors just wake up and do something?

Why is the former Courtyard Mall having above eye level windows for another street level office space? I thought the new Hub Plan for Downtown excluded this type of design- so called priority for street level activity. I don't think that plan is really in effect, does not apply to Paladino or those who put the Hub Plan together have no idea what they were doing or even been outside of Buffalo to other cities to see what creates "Street Level Activity" . First level offices/above eye level windows do not creat activity. It only creates more blank walls and a dull deserted area. (Like we really need more of this on Main St.)

Re: "Why is BK still vacant @ 495 Main Street after all these years?"

Because no one has come forward with a credible plan to rent it. The owners have the wherewithall to fix it up to anyone's liking. The building next to it (former Stuart & Benson) is also vacant (for even longer). Across the street, McD's first floor still available. Ditto for Happy Garden. Anyone comes up with a reasonable plan, the owners are pretty easy to work with, all those locations.