Buffalo Rising Online

Will there be pond hockey in the fountains during the winter?

Seems they are ahead of schedule. They already started pounding in the steel support beams (looks like the whole length of the south park block is done) and the excavating is happening at the other end of the property,

I think skating would be great here but they will only do it if they can get some kind of gaming action at rink side.

Masiello's legacy

Let me be one of the first and probably one of the many to tell the hypocritical opponents... Let's Roll!!!!!

But will they have hourly rates?

A 333 million dollar hotel project/casino can only bring revenue and people here. I was very much opposed to the 100 mill project. I don't think people understand the magnitude of this project. It will definitely bring more visitors to Buffalo and assist in the cobbelstone development.

This project will add more value than the Erie Canal or Naval Musuem; what a waste of time and money. And it is ugly too. A Typical Buffalo project. get rid of the red shed and throw a Starbucks down there.

Furthermore, it is nice to see that yet another project has not been tied up in litigation. Sometimes projects just need to move forward. This is oneo of them.

Development begets development.

This project will nicely compliment the red shed.

I am not holding my breathe, The Casino hasn't done anything for NF it probably wont do anything for buffalo.

Just take a look to all of the AWESOME development going on around the Casino in Niagara Falls! All those new restaurants in the surrounding area are just BOOMING! Of course people will pay more to stay at the Adams Mark and Hyatt and won't waste their time in the free rooms that will be offered by the Senecas. This casino will be DIFFERENT than all the other ones that have sucked economic life out of their surrounding cities!

I think transforming part of the former wharf/ cobblestone district back into a mini redlight district... like it was during Buffalo's industrial heyday of the late 19th century, would not only pay homage to Buffalo's history but would also give a real shot in the arm to this neighborhood. I'm serious. The buildings are already there... and with the casino going up this is a no brainer. People coming in from out of town need more entertainment choices other than just gambling and a hockey game....

The city has a very good revenue sharing agreement with the Senecas. They money we receive will probably be squandered on red sheds and lime stone boat slips, but Buffalo will receive a good piece of the action.

I am not a big Casino person, but a project of this size can not be passed up by a city like Buffalo.

Moreover, it is not fair to compare this to Niagara Falls, which was a convention center turned casino. Niagara Falls does not have a good foundation to work off of like Buffalo. The only thing there is the Casino; there was nothing there before.

Buffalo's casino is being built from the ground up with a 5 star hotel, concert venue, and park in an area which is now a Ghetto. A much nicer Casino than Niagara Falls.

Just build the dam thing and profit from it.

The Buffalo Seneca Creek Casino should (IF BUFFALO AND BUFFALONIANS ARE SMART) create a big impetus for a light rail connection to both Niagara Falls and the Buffalo Niagara International Airport!

Failure to connect Niagara Falls and the Buffalo Airport are essentially symptomatic of Buffalos stodgy, backward, incompetent and disloyal leadership that are content to skim off the largess of the city but recacitrant to actually do their jobs investing in the city's future!

Chris, I think it is a great idea, but do we have the population and airport traffic to support a new light rail project and pay for it?

How many floors is this puppy gonna be?

Maybe John J. Albright or Darwin D. Martin could fund the construction of a new rail from Buffalo to Niagara Falls.

The original plan was to give the Senecas enough land to build a casino, period, and let development happen around it. Now we gave them enough for a luxury hotel, and I'm sure an entertainment venue is to follow. It's a mistake.

Studio Arena is already going down the tubes. Here's how it will happen. It's not that people will make a conscious choice to stop going to Shea's in favor of gambling. But in the years that follow the casino's opening, when that season ticket invoice comes around to the season ticket holders in Depew and Cheektowaga, people will probably just say, "You know maybe we don't have the money to go to Shea's this year." They won't specifically blame it on the casino, but that's where their money will go and Shea's will just be the next casualty of this disgusting deal the Senecas get to pay no taxes and profit from benefits that other local businesses can't compete with.

Boz, I have news for you...that is going to happen anyway. We have a declining population. We have to try something and fast.

This is an enormous project and if done right, it will attract people from out of town that may very well venture into the core of Buffalo.

More importantly, there are developers in NYC and around the country waiting to pounce on this area becuase it is so cheap. If and when they see things being built in Buffalo, they may take a chance too.

TDSBLO - I think he was trying to make the point that they are both vices, so whats the difference if they both cost money.

Say what you want about this casino, but when you see large cranes downtown for:

1.) Waterfront condo tower

2.) Dulski building

3.) Casino

4.) Court House

5.) Hopefully Statler Tower

That is a lot of cranes for Buffalo, it will not go un noticed by outside developers.

DEVELOPMENT BEGETS DEVELOPMENT

YOU CAN ADD PARK LANE CONDOS IN THERE TOO -

Some developer somewhere will feel they are missing out

Buff11, you sound like me! It is weird to be on the other side of the coin on this one. I agree with all of your points, you do make a strong case for not having a casino.

At the end of the day, it may not be our silve bullet, but I can't see it hurting either. If the Senecas are willing to invest 333 million in Buffalo, bring their gaming offices/operations here, and give us a cut of the revenue, I just can't see how this is a bad business decision for us.

I believe the people in Buffalo will still want to eat at their favorite rest. and bars. Althought it is true that anyone coming in from out of town may not leave the hotel, if in fact Bass Pro Project ever moves forward there will be some things to do within walking distance of casino.

Who knows, someone visitng may decide to buy a ticket to studio arena or check out sheas, or go to Thurs in the square in the summer....walk down to the waterfront. etc

Yeah Gaustad, all my out of town friends are just clamoring to come to Buffalo to see the new Indian casino. Tell anyone outside of WNY that this is our economic development plan for downtown and they just laugh. Doesn't help our already bad reputation with people looking for a promising place to relocate.

The only problem with the casino is the revenues from it are not taxable. The profits are going to get divided up and shipped to reservation residents. Sure they will have to spend some sort of money on supplies and payroll but odds are this is still going to be a net loss in wealth for the region.

What we really need to do is provide a free shuttle bus from the Res to the city so some of those dollars we are shipping off come back to us. This is a huge project and a lot of development for the city, it should happen but the benefit of business is its ability to bring wealth to the region, or circulate the money farther and longer within the region. I don't feel either thing is going to happen in the deal that was made.

At this point we can just hope that the Seneca's are good neighbors.

LOL " my parents and hard working people spending their hard earned dollars gambling" AS IF the Seneca's are outside forcing people in. It's by CHOICE if people want to waste their money. No sympathy here...It will make the skyline rather awesome for the first time in decades though and create jobs.

New Buffalo- exactly, and watch the sabres leave town as revenue declines as people spend their entertainment money at the casino.

But then i think that the casino in Niagara Falls is close enough to be convienent for people in erie county and has this had any impact on local business? Sabres, Bills revenue? or theater district ticket sales? Studio arena fall out? maybe i don't know. has anyone studied this?

I think we can be pretty confident that spin off development will not happen by itself and that it will take work to make the casino an attraction that is part of a city package rather then an alternative to it. Canalside if built and the casino could compliment each other just in the mere fact they provide consistent activity in that part of town. The disappointing part however is the utter disregard for the city in the design and placement of the casino. The casino has a distinct front side and back side, very little access from the street, and nothing to feed the streets. It is the nature of a casino but it could have been the nature of the development agreement with the senecas to requre street activiting program - retail or restaurant that could actually make this end of town look alive but pataki is too ignorant to understant the potential impact of an urban casino and where the opportunities lie.

It's not fair to compare this casion to the N. Falls Casino. The city of N. Falls shit the bed decades ago. Fine, I will agree that the NF Casino may not be helping the surrounding city but I invite someone to prove that is hurting the surrounding area. I think there will be a similar impact on Buffalo...not a huge help but no harm done either. The Casino aside, it will be great to have a hotel within walking distance of the Arena. It will add a wrinkle to the draw of the developed waterfront. I don't undestand why everyone goes to extremes with this idea. It's not going to ruin Buffalo or save it. Degenerate gamblers will be degenerate gamblers whether there is a Casino in town or not. Has anyone asked the owners of Cobblestone how they feel about it? I would be interested to hear that perspective.

This is great - are you kiddin? Nobody ever said that the casino would be the end to all the job problems, but it definitely is a great side addition to the city. This just adds another reason why people would want to come to the city. Nobody goes to Bills games for the hotdogs, but are sure glad that they are there when they want something to eat.

The Senecas are the *only* corporation that says they will do something, and then does it. They do not have 1000 layers of crap bureaucracy to deal with, no picketing unions, no old wasps trying to impede progress. If the city could take a page out of the Seneca's playbook, or better yet, let them run the city. If the Senecas could convince the entire city was on their land, they could set their own taxes, and help bring in multiple new corporations here. Instead we are stuck with a 1950's-tax-to-death/put your best friend in office/support the unions government.

Sick....

SLEEPL8 - Here's the article on how the Niagara Falls casino is actually hurting the surrounding area: http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/niagaracounty/story/279062.html

. . . paying no bed taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, providing free rooms and bars where patrons can smoke. How can any legitimate business compete with that?

The Senecas know how to get things done.

This is great news.

"An EXCELLENT addition to our city. This project will be a jewel in the crown. The senecas know how to pull off a project of this size. Can't wait for the addition to the skyline. MAYBE the senecas can build us a bridge to canada? no probably not, that would mean that it would ACTUALLY GET BUILT! "

"The Senecas are the *only* corporation that says they will do something, and then does it. They do not have 1000 layers of crap bureaucracy to deal with, no picketing unions, no old wasps trying to impede progress. If the city could take a page out of the Seneca's playbook, or better yet, let them run the city. If the Senecas could convince the entire city was on their land, they could set their own taxes, and help bring in multiple new corporations here. Instead we are stuck with a 1950's-tax-to-death/put your best friend in office/support the unions government. "

Yes, please look at the current indian reservations to see all the buisnesses and development their super mega awesomeness has spawned. It's easy when you are leeching off an established city giving almost nada in return.

nonono hit it on the head:

:Not to mention what they can do with free land, immunity to NYS law, and no city, county, state or federal taxes, you may be onto a new business model here NewBie!:

Offer any corporation the deal that the Seneca's got and you'd pry see the money vacuum towers popping up all over here. For this deal 50% of net profits on what ever was built on site should have been the start (not just a smaller percentage of slots). Add up all the lost bed taxes, sales taxes, etc etc and we'll come up way short. Or we should have given them the 24% apr loans to construct. If anything NF Ont. did it correct. Gov't owned with all the money coming back to the people and the area. Yes gov't may not be the best to handle the money, but its better than to give it to a sovern nation in the middle of our DT.

Even with the current crap deal we got, at least give us a casino design not based off of prison like seclusion for some hope of off shoot development. Street side restuarants, stores, etc.

It's like being around a bunch of drunk men in a strip club. Flash us your $333 million dollar breasts and we'll throw you all of our money leaving with nothing in return.

maybe if all other sporting good stores in western new york were mandated closed would the bass pro deal be considered better. How about let all the local developers construct their own casinos?

or let any establishment give a quarter of slot revenues and skip all other taxes and fees.

This is horrible news for the marketplace we call downtown because it goes against the theory of capitalism. A casino, by nature, makes money through gambling, a revenue source open only to them. Thus, when they serve food and drinks, they use these items as loss leaders to get people to participate in their real revenue stream.

Consider, steak. Right now, you can get a steak in many places in Buffalo. In deciding the place, you make an argument based on cost versus quality. Because for a restaurant, the higher the quality (a factor of ingredients and expertise in the chef), the higher the cost to make the meal. Since booze and food are the revenue stream of restaurants, they have to charge a price that makes them money. We consumers factor in quality and price when picking a place.

The Senecas do not. They can hire the best chef in the world, order the best ingredients and sell us a steak for $10. In fact, that's good business. Since we'll feel like we're getting a deal, we'll most likely gamble more. (This $10 steak would have been $32 at E.B Greens. Way i look at it, I have $20 more to gable)

Adding a business to the marketplace that gets it's own rules is not good for the marketplace. It might be good for people, because we'll get good food and booze for cheap. But lets not pretend this is good for businesses in Buffalo.

I have news for all of you - the restaraunts on Pine Avenue in the falls are awesome......some of the best food you will ever have. The Cuomo did not shut down or lose business. There are a slew of Italian spots up there that are doing very well. New bars and more restaraunts have opened in the last year.

In adddition, the outlet mall is doing record numbers and there are all kinds of drug stores, banks, businesses opening on Niagara Falls blvd..... so what is the problem?

I am indifferent to the Casino; where did the Casino in the falls hurt? Yes, the surronding area of the Casino is terrible, but it was trrible before!

The Casino is not the solution to turning around Buffalo, but a 333 million dollar project will not hurt; it will attract some much needed investment.

Use the Senecas for what they are worth. If Buffalo can not find a way to profit from a project of this magnitude then shame on us!

Where do you all think that the money is going when you spend it in the casino?

It is going to the people of the Seneca Nation, City of Buffalo and New York State. Last time I checked, the people of the Seneca Nation were a part of Western New York. Where does the money go when you buy something from Dunlop, Ford, GM, Geico, etc? Aren't they based somewhere other than WNY? Are the owners all in WNY? No, it goes to the shareholders all around the world. Sure, some of the money goes to the workers, contractors, etc, but the majority goes outside of WNY. Almost all the money from the casino is staying in Western New York and helping better a people who haven't had it so easy. The Seneca's do the same as the other companies who have locations here, pay local workers, contractors, but the money ends here in WNY and NYS. It's just taking a different route than you’re used to. I thought most of you were about buying local?

Oh, and for those of you who say that these other companies pay taxes, show me one company that is paying $7,000,000 in taxes per year to Buffalo. Good luck with your search.

Regarding Niagara Falls, the City of Niagara Falls is a political mess. The city hasn’t used the casino to their advantage. Buffalo has a much better chance to capitalize on the increase in traffic that the casino will bring. Buffalo will have two anchors for one district, Bass Pro and the Casino. These are two major reasons for people to come to Buffalo. With the proper tenant mix, plan and supporting development, the Cobblestone/Canal Side district will flourish.

Niagara Falls has the falls, the casino, one of the most recognizable names in the world, plus they already have millions of visitors each year. They have no excuse to not have a booming tourist economy. It's all about corruption and greed up there. So don't compare Buffalo to Niagara Falls.