Carl on the Line
Confirmed. "Debilitating. It's a sign of the times. Obstructionism is alive and well, and there's a bunch of well-intentioned people who want to run every aspect of our lives. I can't believe they're using Wendt Foundation money for attorneys. I can't believe they have that kind of power," he said. "I feel like complaining to the surrogate. I may just file a complaint."
He continued, "I can't build my Creamery Hotel. The banks will deny me with what's going on over there. A lot of peripheral development could be taking place. This is Buffalo obstructionist bulls--t. We're over-regulated. We've given every little minority [opinion] group rights.
"You can gamble in Fort Erie. I could pick you up at the office in a minute and a half and take you to Fort Erie and show you all the Buffalo cars in the parking lot. $75 million a year of Buffalo money goes to Fort Erie. Canadians go to Niagara Falls, but Fort Erie is there to draw Buffalo people."
"People will gamble--those disposed to it--and all the Buffalo casino will do is shortcut it for them. They'll come. The money will be spent here, and there will be jobs here."
"These do-gooders want to run every aspect of our lives. We're taxed and regulated to death. We are f---ed-up. In this town you either work for the government or you're on welfare. There's no room for private business. Right now, no casino jobs exist, but all of the downside is there, and there is no money going to local government."
"By the way...you put a casino here, Buffalo will take off. There'll be a venue other than hockey or Sheas to keep people downtown. They'll come from Toronto, they'll stay and they'll spend money. We have the downside, now give us some of the upside. I'm not trying to justify gambling, but people are going to do it."
Reminded that he's never actually stated his plans for the Fairmont Creamery Company building on Scott Street, Carl answered, "Boutique Hotel and high-end apartments."
Then he asks, "Anything else?"
Not right now Carl, but we'll get back to you.
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galaxyjay
I second that.
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BFLORome
He is abso*%#@*^#lutely correct...
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vivian
I was curious myself how they were able to use Wendt foundation money. Bloggers castigated the owner of the Livery stable for what he did , published his work and home phone on the internet, and these people who are attempting to throw away 1500 jobs (a $35,0000,000 - $40,000,000 payroll) seem to get away Scott free. Buffalo will never rise until these feudal control freaks leave the city.
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vivian
Which they probably will. They'll throw a monkey wrench into the works in Buffalo, then retire to the Southland.
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Brette
"I can't believe they're using foundation money for attorneys. I can't believe they have that kind of power."
Whatsa matter, Carl, upset at your pyramid being turned upside down? That those lilliputians succeeded in tying up the big boys? That now us little people can band together and use the legal system instead of just the 500 lb. gorillas like you and Huntress and Maurice John? Like you did when you sued a Buffalo preservationist for millions for defamation? I heard that in the end you settled that for $100, did you actually spend that? frame it? blow your nose with it? When King George's grand army surrendered to those plucky colonial rustics at Yorktown they played "The World Turned Upside Down", and I bet the King stormed about us getting French money for arms and how dare we get that kind of power. Didn't those little ruffians know their place?? Carl, are you hearing the fifes and drums while you storm and rage?
Carl, you're in a nightmare of your own making: who sold the property to them in the first place? Whydja do it, Carl? As for your tears over the Creamery Building, no sympathy here! If you'd kept to your plan for the Oats buildings you'd be fully occupied there now, and using your profits to leverage your Creamery project, and we'd all be slapping you on the back on Buffalo Rising and in person. You're now experiencing the same rage and dismay the rest of us did when we watched the historic waterfront district being clearcut by Steamroller Snyder.
Carl, you've done the community some good: on the Thruway tolls you did the work that benchwarmer and soon to be Former Senator Volker should've done. You've built some buildings and rehabbed others, although you've needlessly leveled and butchered others and all too often tried to get your way by bullying and belligerence. So rage and file your complaints! Maybe feeling what it's like when the shoe's on the other foot will bring you toward enlightenment.
"I could pick you up at the office in a minute and a half and take you to..."
If I was on the line, Carl, that's as far as you'd get before I hung up. You're brave, Elena.
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skarnath
Feudal control freaks? How do you think Carl has become successful? Here is a cut-and paste of a comment I just posted on the story about "Million Dollar Views: Waterfront Place."
"I've commented on this project several times before, but it's worth repeating: sbrof is correct. Paladino should not have been the developer for this project. The City of Buffalo asked Downtown Neighborhood Development, Inc. (DND) to develop a Request for Proposals for this project & we did (I was on the Board). Paladino submitted his proposal late, and addressed almost none of the selection criteria. The selection criteria included better access by extending Genesee St., mixed-use (small retail), a variety of price points so young professionals could buy in at $150k, sidewalks, interior parking, greenspace and public art. The Norstar proposal was submitted on time and addressed all of these points. Their design was bland, but DND had several distinguished architects on its board, so the design was easily improved.
The DND board unanimously recommended that the Paladino proposal not be considered, and that the project be awarded to Norstar. The Masiello administration awarded the project to Paladino, over the strong, written objections of DND. The DND board then voted to go out of business rather than continue a charade."
On the subject of the Wendt Foundation, I'm just guessing but I would bet all of the Seneca casino profits that the trustees see funding the legal fight against the casino as not only within their mission, but their civic obligation.
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jattea
He's NOT correct, on several counts:
1) Yes, there are a number of Buffalonians that drive to Fort Erie who will take a shorter drive downtown, but opening a new casino will attract many multiples of that number from Buffalo, who would otherwise be spending that gambling money on restaraunts, hockey games, etc.
2) People will drive from Toronto to Buffalo to Gamble? Right. Why wouldn't they just go to Niagara Falls, Ont.? The Fallsview casino is gorgeous. There's no reason to drive the extra 45 minutes, not to mention a border crossing.
3) Casinos don't spur development. It's a one-stop shop. You go gambling at a casino, then you eat dinner at one of the zillion restaurants inside the casino, then you go home. Why go to a bar when you get free drinks at the casino?
I'm not anti-gambling. In fact I love to go to casinos, and if this one's built, I will definately go. But the civic-minded half of me wishes it doesn't open. It will be sucking millions of local dollars that would otherwise be spent at local businesses out of the pockets of Buffalonians, and no one else.
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davvid
BRO is unbelievably impotent. What am I supposed to take away from this article? Prepare for interviews and ask good questions. I can't tell if even one question was actually asked of Carl Paladino.
C.P: "In this town you either work for the government or you're on welfare." BRO: "yes Mister Paladino"
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Brette
"Buffalo will never rise until these feudal control freaks leave the city."
Didja hear that Sir Carl? Vivian says ya gotta go!
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bison716
I THIRD THAT! I believe in the hype machine, but remember... its just a piece of the puzzle. Between our night life ("Chip"), inner harbor shopping and restaurants (coming soon), Bass Pro (hopefully still committed), the updated hotels around downtown including the brand-new Avant, cobblestone area development, outer harbor pathways, Main street new business and traffic (possibly foot traffic as-well), Museum, periodic and yearly festivals (new winter associated festivals), The Sabers of course, Bisons, add a 5 Star Hotel and Casino in the mix and you get a pretty lively city with different things to do for different folks very very soon. Our city could and will be completley different in 2-3 years! Add to the fact our diverse culture, art scene, and that "underdog pride" that we all have inside of us for our city, where you can raise a family as-well as have a good time (IN BUFFALO!) without having to travel to the Falls or Ontario all the time. I'm all for a diverse atmosphere in our city where people can brag about "back home we got..." to others. I wish us the best what ever the outcome, but again... the Casino I believe will add not subtract.
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wizardofza
Why even the pretension of "interviewing" Carl? Why not just let him pen his own opinion piece...which this reads exactly like. Or is Elena simply priming herself for a career in transcriptions?
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vikings63
I was trying to stay quiet about this but now i have to speak my mind. First off you anti casino people dont know what your talking about. The so called project people that dont have any money already spend there money on gambling. You people must not go down there much because if you did, you would see that they are in stores buying 10 top 20 dollar lottery tickets already. Second when was there ever going to be a place that was going to bring 1000 to 1500 good paying jobs to buffalo with benefits??????? How about NERVERRRRRRRR. Also the senecas are paying for the whole project with there money and dont want any handouts. Another point I want to make is you keep talking about spending money on the sabres, well let me tell you something the senecas give more money to the state and tax payers then the sabres and bills combine period. Also the casino is only part of the puzzle and not the whole thing and with the mix of all the other devolpements going on around it this will only bring more people to buffalo to spend money in buffalo and not only on the casino. I am a living proof of that. I go to Niagara Falls casino alot and yes i can afford it and when i stay over night I dont stay at the casino or eat at the casino i do that in Niagara Falls hotels and resturants. I was looking forward to the casino opening in Buffalo because i planned on coming to Buffalo alot more and yes spending money in Buffalo on hotels and eating but i can say this that i have money and if this casino doesnt go through I dont care what Buffalo puts in the waterfront I will never spend a dime in Buffalo ever. Oner last point before i go. Just to let you people know that dont understand anything, the people that stay at the hotel in the casino, most of them are there because they one a free room for the night with gambling. So all you people that think that the casino hotel is going to suck all the people away from the other Buffalo hotels are crazy. I have alot more to say but I will end it here.
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GDC
How many buildings will he knock down for parking with this new Boutique Hotel and Apartment building????
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Jolopy
I'm with carl on this guys. He is right on the point that the minority gets everything they ask for now and if the majority wants something they give in because they feel its the right thing to do. I just hope something good comes to Buffalo and that businesses don't get scared off by all the obstruction buffalo brings to the table if a group doesn't like an idea that comes to Buffalo. Its a Ferry tale world some people live in that they think some silver bullet business that is perfect in every way will come to Buffalos aid and save us. You don't think businesses do research on a city before they come? I'm sure they will see the obstructionist past businesses have had with Buffalo. They won't want to deal with it, they will go to the midwest were cities give them what they want because they know the more businesses coming in means more money and better paying jobs. EX. BASS PRO ...How many times did they have to change their plans because the city complained? We bitched so much they probably won't come here anymore. Good Job people. I just hope Buffalo wakes up and starts allowing businesses to build in the city and knock down the old dilapidated buildings that have been like that for decades. We need businesses not a silver bullet.
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TDSBLO
I agree with Jattea, especially your last point. I'll be at the casino when it opens, trying my luck and skill in the poker room. However, for larger reasons, If you ask me if I want a casino in Buffalo, that would be a no.
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TDSBLO
I agree with Jattea, especially your last point. I'll be at the casino when it opens, trying my luck and skill in the poker room. However, for larger reasons, If you ask me if I want a casino in Buffalo, that would be a no.
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jamesbflo
hmm... understand your point viking but i'm not sure the senecas give the state/city more than the sabres/bills do combined. The state is banking off of the players payroll taxes. Add on sales tax from merchandise, ticket surcharges, etc etc. Surely that's all gotta add up to more than 25mil.
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300miles
I don't really understand why Paladino keeps getting to use BRO as his personal soapbox. There ARE other developers in this city ya know. And last time I checked, Paladino was not elected to any position representing the residents of WNY.
I'm also confused whether he was FOR the casinor before he was Against it? or the other way around... I couldve sworn a previous "interview" with him went on tangental rants about how casinos suck. Maybe he SHOULD be a politician. He knows how to say a lot without saying anything.
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heathersmiles
I thought I saw some new graffiti on the Creamery building while driving by today. Did anyone else see that or maybe I was mistaken.
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DanielSack
I can't believe Carl has the power to bring a lawsuit and close the tolls booths on the I-190!
I believe that people who use highways should pay for them. When I use them I don't mind paying.
Carl is the obstructionist. Obstructing the fair collection of fees for use. Maybe he will next sue the City for charging for parking along streets!
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vivian
Actually brett why don't you go. Or at least post under one name.
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hamp
Carl Paladino is an angry and vulgar man.
He lashes out at Foundations for supporting the anti-casino lawsuit. Yet these people have no personal stake in the outcome. But Paladino does. Maybe he thinks his downtown properties are worth less.
Carl, if you want to do something good for the city, how about starting with the Greystone? You bought it years ago, and now you're letting it rot.
Or how about the Court Street site? How long are you going to tie up this important property?
You've done a lot of terrible things to this city you claim to love.
Didn't you tear down the Harbor Inn after you got a demo permit on a Friday, when you knew no one would be watching?
Aren't you the one that let the Webb Building rot so that it was almost demolished?
Didn't you fight to keep Bass Pro on the Central Wharf? It must have killed you to see average citizens using that space on July 4th.
Aren't you the one that got the sweetheart deal for the Waterfront Tower, and a special tax break so no one that owns there pays taxes?
And weren't you the one that sold the Senecas the land where they are building the casino? Who knows how much more land you've tied up in that area, hoping to win a real estate jackpot.
You have a lot of nerve getting angry and swearing at the rest of us that care about this city.
Here's a suggestion. Instead of naming all of your buildings after your dead relatives, how about behaving like an honest citizen?
How about doing something for someone else besides yourself for a change? That would make your parents more proud than having one of your project's named for them.
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TroyT
It seems to me that there are many people with very strong opinions which is completely in their right however it also appears that very few of these people do much 'acting' on these opinions. Perhaps Carl Paladino has earned the right to voice his opinion a bit louder than most, why? because he puts his money where his mouth is and he actually 'does' something other than just talk or complain. Whether you agree with the guy or not he not only wants a better Buffalo but he is doing thngs to create a better buffalo, which I suppose is more than most of us can say. Do we all have to agree on every business that opens up in Buffalo? of course not. The numerous big and small businesses that open up daily in Buffalo will ultimately make the difference, they will shape the future of buffalo. They are pouring the sweat and tears into making this a more beautiful place to live, they are using that energy to do something positive, whether we all like it or not, we don't have to agree upon everything. One thing I think we should all agree on is that new business means progress and I'm all for it. If you believe a casino will be decide the ultimate fate of buffalo I guess you don't really understand what this city is all about, it's not 1 business, it´s all of they collectively that willl determine our future and quite honestly I have to support anyone trying to make a difference.
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hankn
Too bad Brette Skarnaff didn't get his way. So now he's pissed. And Hamp sounds like a screaming {deleted}
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benfranklin
TroyT, well said. Hamp, I'll take one angry man who acts, vs. a hundred that whine. I'll count you with the hundred.
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blackrocklifer
Jattea- very well said, Its not that casinos are evil or immoral, just not good for the host community.
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orlanmon
Carl is a very polarizing personality in Buffalo and WNY and can be gruff at times. I assume helping with the removal of the Ogden and Breckenridge tolls was a totally selfish act as well that benefited no one but him.......??
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orlanmon
Carl is a very polarizing personality in Buffalo and WNY and can be gruff at times. I assume helping with the removal of the Ogden and Breckenridge tolls was a totally selfish act as well that benefited no one but him.......??
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PaulBuffalo
If the Senecas were to schedule blockbuster entertainment at the Buffalo casino on a regular basis, I could envision Torontonians and many Canadians visiting the city. However, I don't think Canadians will come to Buffalo just for the experience of gambling.
I agree with Mr. Paladino on at least one of his comments: that New York State is a regulatory and tax nightmare. Simplified, understandable and fair regulations and taxes would open the door to investment throughout the state. The casino debate has become an unfortunate pawn that masks the real issues inhibiting growth.
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gitterdun
Hello... Mr. Paladino....
Don't you know? Some of us like the downsizing concept. And not just because it's so easy.
A Casino, and Shows, and fancy Restaurants, and exotic Wine Lists, and 24/7 Entertainment? Hello???
Who wants a more crowded Downtown Buffalo? We already have like 40 Sabres games a year to contend with. And there are something like a dozen Thursdays in The Square. There's the Gusmacker, Taste of Buffalo, Blessing of the Harley's, umm.... the Turkey Trot, Allentown Arts Festival, Taste of Buffalo.
See what I mean? Numerous inconveniences. And God help us if Bills fans were to swing by Buffalo on home game weekends.
I am sure I'm not alone in my appreciation of the ever lighter traffic entering and leaving the city on a daily basis. Let's hear it for less traffic every year!! Are you with me?
And regarding your point about Canada... I'm sure you know that in reality, the slightest happening on either side of the Peace Bridge backs traffic up for many hundreds of yards, which may not seem like much but probably most of us know to be a uniquely miserable experience. Could you imagine how many Canadians would come if it was easy?
Let's just let our Leaders do what they do best.
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onestarmartin
I would rather give company's such Bass Pro 65 million of our tax dollars than have the Seneca's and people like Paladino spend 500 million + of their own money investing in Buffalo. Plus, I like working hard to pay taxes for the unemployed to stay on welfare when the thought of 1100 plus jobs disolve. In the end this will work out as we all know many fortune 500 companys are panting to open in Buffalo and employ thousands, which is a good thing for all the condo's gong up in the unused office and warehouse buildings.
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Your_Intellectual_Superior
Excellent strawman argument, Martin...You lead me to believe that my only choice for economic development are massive corporate subsidies or allowing a sovereign monopoly...Clearly, since no other development is possible, lets bring on the slots!!! See you there, Buffalo
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Sal
hamp - the "sweetheart deal for the Waterfront Tower" was Paladino's winning bid for city-owned property. If I bid on a property and end up buying it, I wouldn't consider that a sweetheart deal. It's how our free-market system works.
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Sal
hamp - the "sweetheart deal for the Waterfront Tower" was Paladino's winning bid for city-owned property. If I bid on a property and end up buying it, I wouldn't consider that a sweetheart deal. It's how our free-market system works.
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skarnath
Sal - re-read my post above (#6). Paladino did NOT win the Waterfront Tower project. He lost it! Then he strong-armed the Masiello administration into giving it to him. The situation was so corrupt that the all-volunteer Downtown Neighborhood Development, Inc (DND) voted to disband rather than continue to offer advice to the City, only to have that advice ignored.
Developers will follow the rules - but only if the City has rules, and consistently enforces them. But the city hasn't shown enough leadership, which is why citizen groups constantly have to step in, and prod the city and developers to do better work.
Hamp - well said.
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pegger
Someone sees pie in the sky if they think the jobs will pay 30K-40K. These casinos are not subject to minimum wage laws. In California, they used a formula that paid the workers just enough so they could still qualify for state funded medical insurance (MediCal) and public housing. They also do not treat them well. So, when I hear about the jobs people so hope will come to revitalize the city, I can't help but laugh to myself. Casinos are ultimately big burdens on the communities where ever they are.
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scottnorwood
With the exception of davvid and wizardofza, the comments on here are excellent and a really good indicator of just how divided the city is on the issue of a Buffalo Casino. I'm still not sure how I feel about it, but i have to admit i was pretty curious to see what happened once it opened.
Carl Paladino sends out a few letters a month to every single publication in the city. This happens to be a topic that i am interested to hear his views on and I applaud BRO for publishing it, regardless of whether it was an interview or a rant. He is nothing if not entertaining and he is the kind of guy you either love or hate, which always makes for some good comments on here.
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Jolopy
If your for or against the CBB "citizens for a better buffalo" and what they have done for the casino let them know. They are the ones that can either continue to stop the casino or let it go now. So let them know how you feel. Heres their email address: Ed@BetterBuffalo.com . My opinion is: they have been around for 2 years and all they have done to make buffalo better is sue to stop the casino. I can already see my property values rising and my tax dollars decreasing. Deep breathe now..hoping hoping.....damn my house is still worth the same, my property value hasn't come up and the crack head is still wondering around outside.
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hankn
OHHHH the DND , all 3 people that make it up. I'M trying to get two more people together to form the QAR or will I call it the YUH or the BBZ. Sooo Impressed am I.
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hankn
OHHHH the DND , all 3 people that make it up. I'M trying to get two more people together to form the QAR or will I call it the YUH or the BBZ. Sooo Impressed am I.
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wingking
Uh, wasn't it Paladino who "obstructed" the plans for the casino to be located in Cheektowaga?
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skarnath
The poll the Seneca's most often quote is the one from last summer done by Zogby International. They called 903 city residents over a 2 day period. The results that the Seneca's trumpeted to the world - 57% of Buffalo residents support the downtown casino.
Here is what they didn't say - 1) the Seneca's PAID for the poll; 2) it was a "push" poll. The questions were framed so that people would respond that they favored the casino. Here are two of the questions:
a) If you knew that building the Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino would bring in 1000 jobs, would that make you more likely to support building the casino?
b) If you knew that building the Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino in downtown Buffalo would potentially mean an additional $5 million to $7 million in city revenue, would that make you more likely to support building the casino?
And even with those questions, they only got 57% in favor. Imagine what the results would have been if the poll had been paid for by Citizens for a Better Buffalo, and they had asked the question: If you knew that the Seneca's would never pay local, state or federal taxes, and that the casino would eliminate more jobs than it creates, would that make you less likely to support the casino? That's how push polls work - they push people to answer a certain way.
So the next time you think you are speaking for the majority of Buffalonians who clearly favor the casino, ask yourself if it's possible that you're just another person who has been manipulated by the Seneca propaganda machine.
Most of my friends refuse to respond to the comments on BRO because they consider it a waste of time to respond to people whose basic philosophy is: "Never let the facts get in the way of my own opinion."
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nyc
"By the way...you put a casino here, Buffalo will take off."
Just like Niagara Falls?
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Devilsadvocate
While not a fan of CP, he unlike many other advocate's of opinion at least puts his money where his mouth is. People should be free to have choices and if their choices are inappropriate for them that's their Karma and shouldn't affect those with different agendas
Bleeding hearts should get off their behinds and demonstrate their ability make changes not sit back and pollute the atmosphere with the results of their undigested information constipation .
At this point creating any jobs is better than doing nothing or waiting for the next public sector handout. Self employed individuals are the base of all economies and from them employment opportunities develop, don't have a job, create your own smart ass.
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nyc
"By the way...you put a casino here, Buffalo will take off."
Just like Niagara Falls?
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Hospitable
I think its funny... he's just pissed b/c he got a dose of his own medicine and someone else has the upperhand along with a ton of money from a foundation. I agree with the rest.. hate him or love him, one or the other. He does quite a bit, but he is farr from perfect.
As far as the casino.. I applaude CBB for standing up for the community. The Senecas had a chance to do something great here and I for one am extremly dissappointed with the design for the entire compley. Its obvious that Buffalo has much more going for it than Niagara FAlls...why would anyone settle for an urban island this close to our burgeoning waterfront? Absolutely insane. NOt for or against, but casinos are still a one stop shop.. I was hoping this one would have been different.
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rb66
Carl Paladino is right!
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hankn
And the minute they make it different, the same people would scream they are competing with local vendors. . And burgeoning is hardly the word to use to describe a neighborhood that is currently 80% gravel lots. You want to see a burgeoning waterfront goto Balimore or Toronto or San Fran, or Vancouver, or Boston or... And maybe then you will reconsider your use of the word burgeoning.
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nyc
yeah but then they would win over enough people to convince that the project would make a difference. If they wanted to build this thing, they had to make it address multiple fronts, not just their bottom line and some baseless assumption that it will spur development in Buffalo. As is, it's designed to insulate itself from the city. Not even the smallest gesture is made to show they give a damn about the context. Nothing would come of this project just like absolutely nothing has come of the Niagara Falls Casino.
and burgeoning does not inply a fully developed waterfront as in your examples. It implies the beginning...which is appropriate.
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hankn
Appropraite, please give it a rest. Buffalo has always been a city of beginnings, but never endings, That is the problem. And as Far as the Nf casino goes, I'd say an additional 3500 jobs in the last 5 years is spinoff, the New Crown Plaza across the street spinoff, Several renovated Historic apartment building like the Jefferson are spinoff. In fact there probably is more construction there than in th cobblestone. And wait ntil the SGC releases the plans for the talllest hotel tower between toronto and NYC. OH!! that's you Try sending them a letter about your concerns rather than bitch about it on a blog they will never read.
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sonyactivision
If the Senecas win on appeal, I'm wondering if the Wendt Foundation can be held liable for any lost income. Misguided obstructionists need to pay a price.
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blackrocklifer
sony- Yeah, "Misguided obstructionists need to pay a price" because we can't have citizens challenging the politicans and profiteers that have done such a great job here in western new york.
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nyc
the niagara falls spin-off you mention - it's state funded.
yes there are new jobs but no appreciable difference between the niagara falls you see today and the one before the casino. The senecas hold all the cards. The state never intended the casinos to be the linchpin for redevelopment, just a money pipeline to state coffers. That is what pisses me off the most, they could have made more of it. I am not arging against gambling and believe me I have written letters.
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hankn
State funded or do you man some form state/local financal aid package.. Is there any major constructon in downtown Buffalo that has beeen done w/o some form of government subsidy or tax break in the last 40 years?
That being said I agree with you that the host communities should recieve the Lions share of any payments made in lieu of taxes by the SGC.
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pegger
Rest assured, the casino will make it a one stop destination. They will have high quality and reasonable retaurants for all tastes and budgets, gift stores that carry everything "Buffalo" Buffalo sells, gyms, hair salons, and all kinds of ammenities to meet the demands of their clients. Not to mention inexpensive rooms! They will even have a convenience store that will make that extra stop on the way home unnecessary. The net value to adjoining businesses is between negligible and zero.
For the record, I am not against gambling and I go to Nevada more than once per year. I love Vegas! I drive by the local Indian casino twice a day. When I glance at the parking lot, what do I see? A sea of older, beat up cars. What does that tell me about the employees and the clients?
I wonder if Martha Stewart would call it a "good thing."
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GDC
Are we all to blind to see how wonderful Niagara Falls CANDADA Looks? TWO Casino's and it's VIBRANT with theme restaurants, family fun places (games, haunted houses), museums, etc. Sooooo the New York side sucks, why are we comparing Buffalo to Niagara Falls, two different cities, One already draws Tourists because of the Falls, the other is just a passerby city with some coming to see the Architecture, after that...????? well, for now we have plenty of empty store fronts, and few open during the lunch hours and waterfront to Look At, a casino is sort of a plus for "Something to Do" , right???
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blackrocklifer
Can't use Niagara Falls Canada for comparison, they did it right, the dollars stay in the city.
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PaulBuffalo
I agree with Blackrocklifer that Niagara Falls, Ontario, has a better financial benefit from their casinos. I would question whether Buffalo wants a theme park atmosphere for its downtown. Niagara Falls, Ontario, has been designed to be Canada's Las Vegas and this is the only over-the-top attraction in the country. They have a populace that is hungry for that type of atmosphere in their own country. Buffalo can't hope to compete with that endeavor even if the financial rewards for Buffalo gambling facility were stronger.
If Buffalo and Niagara Falls, New York, are to succeed with any casino, they shouldn't try to be carbon copies of Niagara Falls (Ontario), Las Vegas, or Atlantic City. They must have their own identities and I don't think that has yet been addressed.
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KenS
Any chance this website can be upgraded to run on more than a 1980's vintage PC? The double posting because you don't know whether your comment has been accepted is worse than watching paint dry.!
PS Not to mention how long it takes to login.
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Hospitable
HankN... the old Post office building and the Jefferson. Find me a handful of historic buildings in NF that have been remodeled b/c of the casino and I'll rescind this comment.
Correct.. the Crowne plaza was funded by the state, as is the NF meeting/convention center (managed by Sentry Hospitality)
The casinos are definately part of a larger puzzle in Niagara Falls, Ontario. Its funny that they're owned by the government and it seems as if a large percentage of the profits are poured directly back into the city. Whether its in infrastructure or welfare (not getting into that one).. the gov't on Ontario puts money into the city of NF. The state of ny.. DOESN'T.
One negative thing that needs to be mentioned about NF, ONT. is that they do quite fantastic in the summer time/busy season.. but thats it. With their growth plans and changes in the skyline (i.e. thousands of more hotel rooms) they're going to come to the realization that you can't have a destination based solely on gambling, which isn't so in Vegas. Their slow season gets progessively slower every year b/c its nF ont. has one purpose and no variety. I would hate to see what they have oveer there on our side as well.
GDC... when u look at those corny ass haunted houses and the glitz and glam of their "vegasizied" Timmy ho's and Arbys. Is the first word that comes to your mind "virbrant"?? If I ever saw anything resembling Clifton Hill in Buffalo I would leave and never come back.
..If theres to be development on Buffalo waterfront let's try and avoid the "Clifton Hill/Times Square" Syndrome and think a little more Fannueil Hall or Magnificent Mile. Buffalo has got so much more class than that.
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Mariner
Like him or not he's right on. The Casino is going to open watch and see. They are still working over there.
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nickatnite
skarnath - well put
people have to stop being so ignorant and lean the facts. the idea of a casino and high-rise hotel got me excited when i first heard about it. but then i read into the facts. if the city isnt going to benefit at all from this project then I am against it. (5-7 million for slots that will dry up in 15 yrs is not my idea of great benefit)
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WholeLottaJibbaJabbah
What we need are business, commerce, factories and not "Let it ride, come on Red 17, little Johnny needs more asthma medicine!!!!"
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MJWorthington
"Balimore or Toronto or San Fran, or Vancouver, or Boston or... And maybe then you will reconsider your use of the word burgeoning."
how many casinos on those waterfronts?
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BuffaloRitz
Buffalo is doomed. I am a huge city advocate..but it is getting hard. Fact is that Carl is right. Oh yes, and you are right that he is trying to make money on this project. But only in Buffalo is trying to make money viewed as crime by the public. The point is that a majority of jobs in the area come from government and we have several people living off the system. That is bad news for any city. “Democracy fails when the masses figure out that they can vote all the money out of the public coffers”. This kind of sums it up. We now have more people living off the public coffers then people that can afford to put money into it. Those people putting money into the coffers have little voice on how that money is going to be spent. Gives people with money afraid to invest in the city because you will have little voice. Example: lets say an individual that makes money and is highly taxed funds 100% of a pool of money. Three people control this pool. One of the people that is given a vote is the person that funds the 100%. Another person that is given a vote for this pool is hired from this pool of money (government worker). The other with a vote is currently not working but is provided with social services. The two (government worker and person on social services) can take majority control over this pool of money. Sucks to be the one that funds the pool. Feels like your giving your lunch money to the school bully. That is why areas like Buffalo , Detroit and others that fit this matrix have difficulty pulling themselves out of this cycle. Money goes were it can have a voice and be successful.
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blackrocklifer
People on social services are unlikely to vote. In fact the poor and minorities have a record of not taking part in the democratic process. Kinda makes you wonder who we should blame for the political mess in WNY.
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MJWorthington
"The point is that a majority of jobs in the area come from government and we have several people living off the system"
So our state gov't giving a monopoly on a high stakes gaming to a sovergn government is not gov't based jobs? Seems even less efficient form of taxation than the primary gov't doing it themselves.
I am not against casinos. I am against ones based on a monopoly given to a sovern nation. Add to that one that can build anything else on-site tax free. So we need to get around the state constitution, fine. Give them the casino rights but they want to add a hotel? build it on a non-sovergn portion of land next to this. Maybe then someone will build another hotel there too that can then compete in some form. Want restuarants? build them on a non-sovergn portion of the land. Let other restuarants build there to and connect. Etc, etc.
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BuffaloRitz
MJWorthington- Can you say Lotto.
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