Buffalo Rising Online

What B.S. how about these blow hard state legislators work to lower the tax burden that is stifling our region instead of raising taxes to provide millions in aid in an attempt to alleviate the hardships caused by their over-taxing.

There is an opportunity here. Buffalo isn't is the dire straights as it was a coupe years ago what if it took a stand sending the money back.. (I know a little outlandish and probably would backfire) but it would make a statement about Albany politics and the problems of the state holding places like buffalo back. Put an attachment to it saying, you can have your money, lower our taxes...

Now thinking about reality, it would be nice to see this money go directly into lowering the cost of business and living within the city. How about taking this money and making the city competitive again. 171 million.. and 10-12 million new, even if you took just the 'new' money and spread it over everyone's property taxes it would help out and more importantly it would send a message that the government is trying to do what is best for ALL of Buffalo. oh wait Brown was elected... that just means the unions are going have the privilege of making more money than everyone else and retiring with benefits higher than 3 entire family income's combined.. I really want to see where this money goes..

If not to taxes it really should go to some large capital need for the region. Separating our sewers from the waterways, 10 million could build a 1/2 mile worth of above ground light rail (Larkin District / Casino connection anyone?) It could return the wetlands / gala waters in our Olmsted parks. Support Mrogers revolving fun for home rehabilitation, help our Rocco or even Paladino get the graystone / 500 block completed,

Let's see some real changes for the better, no one is expecting everything to get fixed overnight but how about at least making a little progress especially something that we can show off when it is over. NO one cares if the Unions get their stupid pay raises that they feel so 'entitled' to. All it does it make Buffalo look backwards to surrounding communities and the country. Having beautiful parks, renovated buildings, a state of the art renewable waste treatment system are things that make us stand out. Hell 10 million could probably build another wind turbine.. Let's SEE the result of the money. because in this town more than others Seeing is the only form of believing.

Dear Negative Nelly, Are you saying you don't want to win the lottery 'cuz you'll have to pay $1MM in taxes?

Let's leave this one for the optimists (whom are not necessarily always realists).

Yeah, it's our taxes, blah blah blah - but, it could've just as easily been 10% less...

I don't really mind the taxes we have here and I have lived in many other places where the taxes were much higher. The real problem I have about our taxes here is in the fact that we don't see or know where the moneys go. In the end we send millions of dollars to the schools, to unions, to who knows what and most people are left wondering what am I getting for my tax money.

Unlike in Germany or Japan where transportation, infrastructure, job security, health care or education are all provided (to some extent) through taxes. In such cases I didn't mind paying a 15% sales tax because you are constantly using and benefiting from the money you put into the system. Here the money disappears in Albany and never seems to actually improve our quality of life. That is all I was trying to say.

Hey y'all... the line for union raises is on the left, welfare handouts on the right, silver bullet projects line up over there. What? Oh, I'm sorry, yes local politicians can go right to the front of any line to get theres.

Know what, f*** the outer harbor project. Its been a dirt field for 30 years and can stay that way for 30 more. That project ain't gonna do squat for the average buffalonian who can't afford to get there. F*** the inner harbor development 'cause it is just a monument to your white ancestors, nothin there for most Buffalonians either. Buffalo should do the responsible thing and give it to the stability board for safe keeping 'cause we all know that the powers that be can't manage s**t on their own. You know, if you lend a buck to a crackhead you sure as hell ain't gonna ever see it again. Buffalo is no different, once a mug always a mug. Don't trust the mayor to do it, cuz we all gonna get took. I'd ask the new County Exec to hold it for us, at least that dude can turn a bad buck into good, dudes a multimillionare for a reason. Buster Brown could learn a thing or two from that cat.

Crack for an addict. YIPPEE!

Crack for an addict. YIPPEE!

Crack for an addict. YIPPEE!

Great news! More aid = higher state taxes! Just what we need to keep Upstate NY on the cutting edge of being competitive for business. This, combined with higher NYS Thruway Tolls, should really help us expand the job base!

now we can finally get that big arch built down on the waterfront.

1. Uhh, this isn't a "windfall." It's not a one-time thing, either. It's our normal, yearly state aid, just a bit bigger this year.

2. Our portion of the bill for Iraq comes out to $408 Million so far. It'd be nice to have that back.

Simcoe-

Social Security, Iraq, and Medicare/Medicaid were quoted, by CNN, two days ago to be $450K for every man, woman, and child in the US to fulfill the current obligations, and projected costs of each through 2050 (War ending in 3 years).

As far as people gripeing about taxes; move. You can pay high taxes on a $200K, 2,200 Sq/ft house in Buffalo, or low taxes on a 1,500 Sq/Ft $750K house in a place like DC. Yeah, the tax rate sucks, but I like my mortgage payment a lot better.

I also like clean roads in winter. Reasonably well kept infrastructure/roads (Considering what our weather does to it), good schools, fantastic universities, great parks, etc. I'll happily pay more to get the stuff, too.

My wife and I (Both 32) don't want children, but don't mind spending a few more $$ to get smart(er) kids in the community.

We as a state need to grow up and realize that most of us WANT the services, but of course want some phantom power to pay for it. The Waterfront? The Rt.5 replacement? The Psych Center rehab? UB Expanding downtown? The Burchfield? All that crap is being done with your taxes. And I'm happy to support it.

I have family in SC, they pay virtually nothing for taxes, and it shows.

Just my thoughts...

oldimpala - Evidently many people and companies have been taking the same advice you mention: "As far as people gripeing about taxes; move."

Flight of Young Adults Is Causing Alarm Upstate By SAM ROBERTS June 13, 2006 Upstate New York is staggering from an accelerating exodus of young adults, new census results show. The migration is turning many communities grayer, threatening the long-term viability of ailing cities and raising concerns about the state's future tax base.

From 1990 to 2004, the number of 25-to-34-year-old residents in the 52 counties north of Rockland and Putnam declined by more than 25 percent. In 13 counties that include cities like Buffalo, Syracuse and Binghamton, the population of young adults fell by more than 30 percent.

"Make no mistake: this is not business as usual," Robert G. Wilmers, the chairman of M & T Bank in Buffalo, told his shareholders this spring. "The magnitude and duration of population loss among the young is unprecedented in our history. There has never been a previous 10-year period in the history of the upstate region when there has been any decline in this most vital portion of our population."

In New York City and the five suburban counties in New York State, the number of people ages 18 to 44 increased by 1.5 percent in the 1990's. Upstate, it declined by 10 percent. Over all, the upstate population grew by 1.1 percent in the 1990's - slower than the rate for any state except West Virginia and North Dakota. ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/13/nyregion/13census.html

I wouldn't be nearly this cool if I lived elsewhere. Rock on Buffalo.

I would be infavor of using increased state aid to Buffalo lowering the cost of business and residential taxes except for one thing. There are bigger problems in Buffalo than taxes such as under-investment in major projects such as: 1) AM&As, Greystone, LaFayette, Statler, etc....are all buildings that are destroying downtown. 2) the expansion of brownfield remediation from the newly acquired steel fields all the way to the Larkin District 3) the expansion of the light rail to Airport, UB and Niagara Falls 4) the new convention and conference center at the Ohio Basin 5) infill residential construction within the inner city neighborhoods 6) Buffalo State Dorms were in the Buffalo News today but notice how retail and small business office/industrial space for incubators associated with the community and the local colleges were completely absent. Every urban neighborhood needs multiple office/industrial parks to provide jobs to that community. No residential program to make neighborhoods safe and preserve housing stock much less infill will work without addressing community job creation. 7) replanting Buffalos trees 8) how about an urban green program by allowing people to deduct the cost of a heat pump for every property owner which would lower heating bills 20%-30%, as well as programs for things like insulation, roofing, gutters, etc. 9) rebuilding our wate and sewar lines which have 50% leak rates is another 10) how about using the money for additional centers of excellence for Buffalo?

The thing is that its not just lowering taxes because in truth we can lower taxes today and when the state aid gets cut tomorrow all those same businesses will leave if they even come because to be honest most business would not believe anything in NYS to be considered low tax stable (ie low taxes for the longterm).

So Buffalo must learn from Rochester in that it must try to lower taxes (true) but it must do everything in its power to add value to the community in such a way as to make it worthwhile for a company to accept and make a commitment to the area beyond its negatives such as taxes. One way to do that is quality of life, the other is knowledge and skills while the third is infrastructure infrastructure infastructure!

AtwaterLouse-

I think you miss my point. Whilst people gripe about oppressive taxes, they're also not looking at the total cost of living. Financial, or otherwise.

To Carl:

I'm a Philadelphia native, and look at my relatives spending 2+ hours, daily, commuting to a dumpy 'burb with an oppressively priced home. By contrast, I live 12 miles from the city. I work, play, and shop there because those 12 miles take me... Wait for it... 10 minutes to traverse.

My friends in from all over the country are actually moving BACK to NY. Taxes and all. Taking huge (On the surface) paycuts, because the Quality of living is higher. I've imported 2 Embedded Software Engineers, a physicist, 2 ME's, a doctor, and a Higher Ed professional employee to the area, from all the "Boom" areas of the country (DC, Atlanta, Chicago, and NY).

Oh, and Carl. I'm sorry you left. I've lived up and down the East Coast, and your impressions of the people in Buffalo is the company you keep, as are all cities. There are closed-minded, ignorant, backwards people in LA, I'm sure. Is the government frustrating here? Yeah. Are you going to tell my CA isn't perpetually dysfunctional, too? I have an aunt in Fresno, and close friend in Thousand Oaks who load me with stories that sound Buffalo-esque. What about the power crisis a few years ago? None of that was due to dysfunctional government, right? CA's not heaven, sir. We all have our problems.

The biggest problem with most Buffalo natives is they haven't lived anywhere else, to see this is status quo. Thus, they gripe. And take for granted what the area has.

As far as career/pay goes, there are great jobs here, you're not looking. I have 2 Undergrad degrees, I'm almost finished with my MBA, and once that's complete, I'm going back for my M/E. My Wife has a BA and MA. We're paid quite well. More than what many of my friends in far more expensive areas make. All the people I've brought to Buffalo make comparable salaries to the areas they left; some with slight pay cuts (Less than $5K/year), but the COL easily offsets that.

And Carl, honestly, if you don't care about the area enough to stick around and fix it, then go. Enjoy LA. I can easily find people to take your place here. You'll get it eventually, when you're looking to buy a house, and you can't find anything for under $400K, or your commute becomes unbearable, or a million other things.

I was moved here by my company, under duress originally (A large telecom company that may begin with "V") in 2000, and this will be my home, until they put me 6 feet under. I had two opportunities, one in Arlington, VA, and Elmwood Avenue, here....

As far as my impressions of this area, I'll continue to import people, and shout it from the rooftops, because I truly BELIEVE this area is a fantastic place for a young professional to live. I'm looking for jobs, right now, for a journalist, an EE, and another person who works for George Washington University... Only one has any connection to this town; a Canisus grad.

The rest just love it here...

I'm done rambling, now...

Dude69 man Rochester sucks worse than Buffalo. They lose everything when Xerox or Kodak decides to go which from the sounds of it may be pretty soon. I got family there who will prolly come here when that happens. Their mayor mccheese is worse than our buster brown, that dude is all up in the corruption. compare best to best and worst to worst and you will see that Buffalo has more in the best and less in the worst when compared to Rochester. Sounds like you got some real solid wood for rochester or at least a decent kejakus so best keep it in your pants there little man.

oldimpala - couldn't agree with you more. I lived in FL, Vegas, out West - everywhere has their problems, and there are plenty of parts of the country that are in worse economic shape than Buffalo. Carl - how can you live in LA and complain that Buffalo isn't fighting sprawl? Its taken me four hours to cross LA, because its 75 miles wide.

I'm a consultant and fly to where I work - all I need is a good airport (check) and a suitcase (check), and I bring home national wages, which do us fine when my 2000 sqft house on 2 acres cost $150K. My wife teaches college, and is a nurse. Starting salary in the ER here was better than Vegas. I've paid no taxes in Vegas, and gotten nothing for it - schools where my kids got A's because they didn't start fights, but didn't learn anything either. Clogged roads that are falling apart. City and state government that makes NY look competant and squeaky clean.

The point is, everywhere you live has problems. People in LA, Vegas, Dallas, and Miami accept them because half the population has lived somewhere else, and knows its not endemic to their area. Buffalo has trouble (and isn't alone in this) attracting outsiders to settle permanently, so the national perspective is lacking. Our insulation produces quaint and endearing traditions (nowhere else does Dyngus Day, and you can't beat the italian sausage here), but it can also infuriate.

oldimpala - I was pointing out that a lot of people (and companies) arcoss Upstate seem to be taking the advice you wrote in your first comment. I don't see how that's missing the point.

AtwaterLouse- I think you miss my point. Whilst people gripe about oppressive taxes, they're also not looking at the total cost of living. Financial, or otherwise.

I was agreeing with you that it's better to move than to endlessly complain. Life is short. But sometimes other considerations can get in the way of moving, so while good advice in general it's not always the immediate answer.

About total costs of living, total costs of doing business, and quality of life - yes of course those are important too. But compared to mid-size cities with which metro Buffalo generally competes, I'm not convinced the differences in costs and QOL are dramatic, or are always in Buffalo's favor. Buffalo has some positive factors those ways, but as with most things in life it's a mixed bag.

Really I'm glad to hear you and your wife and your recruits are all happy here. Basically I agree most of what you wrote makes sense in many individual cases, but I don't think it scales up well.

carl - Although people deciding to leave WNY (or to not move here in the first place) might not usually say their reasons are anything to do with high taxes or other disadvantages of our business climate here, it's possible those factors do have bad impacts on reasons they do say - less career growth opportunities, for example.

As a proud member of the 25-34 young adult flight, (i now live in Los Angeles, but grew up in Buffalo) i can say that taxes had little to do with me leaving.

...If you are a recent college graduate in any 90% of the fields Buffalo's colleges and universities are graduating, right now you are a complete idiot to stay, and that infurates me. If i could have found an oppourtunity to do interesting work (im an architect) in buffalo, i would never have left, because i love an miss my home town. You can't waste the most important years of you career hoping things will get better, when there is little movement, and the odds stacked against you.

And the whole living expenses thing is over blown. I pay about 25 percent more in rent, but earn around 40% more in income!

Nobody can prove exactly how big a role high taxes play in having slower than average business growth (and so perhaps slower than average opportunity growth for many careers). There's many factors including some you listed and others. But since economic stagnation and steep population issues seem to trend across many cities Upstate, I think it goes beyond Buffalo-specific stupidities.

Every city has problems, it comes from providing services to people with different needs and perspectives. Upstate New York is in trouble, but so is Southern Florida, Northern California, and most of the states in between. Buffalo is not in the same league as cities like Los Angeles, DC, and NYC, that said we actually stack up pretty well in terms of services offered, education (in the suburbs) and cultural attractions. Yes, we need to pull our heads out of our collective a$$es and resolve some systemic, long-standing issues that hold us back, but at least we have a chance of resolving these. Compare that to LA where the majority of residents cannot afford to own a home, where they have a rampant gang problem, huge illegal immigration issues, increasing unemployment, and Brittany Spears. We have a chance of fixing the waterfront, the skyway, bringing in new companies, resolving union issues, and (we can pray) lowering taxes. Even with all of these constraints, the cost of living is still reasonable, especially if you earn more than $100K a year (single or combined). What will $100K a year buy you in LA or DC? My final comment on Carl's post is that it is a good thing that you are between 25 - 35 because you are still comfortable with sharing your living space with roommates. It sucks to do that when you get older, it sucks to spend your time stuck in traffic when you have kids that you would like to see before they go to bed. It sucks to wait in line for 90 minutes at even the chain restaurants on just about any night of the week. It sucks to be a nameless and faceless member of the hordes of humans living in the larger cities, knowing that you can't really make a difference. Buffalo is so different in these, and many other, aspects. You should keep the good things about Buffalo in mind because you might just consider all of the opportunities and advantages that WNY has to offer when you grow up a little.

Einstein - Fair points, but why are comparisons important with LA, DC, NYC? Apples to oranges, no?

Isn't Buffalo's real competition for people and companies other mid-size cities... Raleigh/Durham, Nashville, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Columbus, etc.?

Atwater - unfortunately, I don't think so. We're not selling advertising space in TV markets. People go to 1) jobs 2) homes 3) weather. Big market, small market, who cares. If you are a computer engineer, I don't think you say "The job in Seattle is a large city, so I should compare that to s imilar job in LA, but if someone in Austin offers me a job, I'll only compare it to Colorado Springs." People follow well paying jobs, and look for a decent house. Lots of sunshine helps. But I think we need to be realistic about where the migration is going to. Not everyone is leaving a city of 1 million for a city of 1 million.

For most of my friends who moved away with me, it went like this, "They offered me $80K in DC, but I hear its expensive there. Guess I'll have to rent for a while and can't buy a house." I'm not sure its much deeper than that, usually, until you've lived a bunch of places, and things like space, parks, short communtes, good schools and affordable housing mean something.

Buffalo will have turned a corner when I hear someone say they got offered good money to come here, so they followed a job, anbd were then pleasantly surprised how nice it was, so they stayed. Does anyone know anyone like that? I'd love to meet them.

Prodigal-Son-

Buffalo will have turned a corner when I hear someone say they got offered good money to come here, so they followed a job, anbd were then pleasantly surprised how nice it was, so they stayed. Does anyone know anyone like that? I'd love to meet them.

When are you coming back? You can meet me, and about a dozen others... I make, my wife, and the people I've found jobs for up hear all do quite well, and we all moved here for jobs. The guy sitting in my living room found an Engineering job here, when he couldn't find one naywhere else in the NE. After IBM laid him off.

They exist. Period. Next time you're back in town, we'll head out for dinner, then you can assume we've turned the corner. (Read my above commentary for fleshing this all out)

-Andy

Andy (oldimpala) -

Read my post above as well where I flesh it all out - I moved back last summer, and am happy I did. My wife and I have good jobs, and are glad we came back. And I would love to meet you and your friends. Unfortunately, the circle of folks I know either 1) never left, or 2) moved here (or back) for family, quality of life, culture, home prices . . . anything but a great job they couldn't say no to. Its the "repat" crowd - "I tried everywhere else, but there is nowhere as good as here."

Buffalo media, and sites like this and others, love to tell stories about folks who move away and come back because Buffalo is so great. I want to hear stories about your friends instead, because then the story will be "High Paying Jobs Draw New Residents to City."

Oldimpala Wrote:

"The biggest problem with most Buffalo natives is they haven't lived anywhere else, to see this is status quo. Thus, they gripe. And take for granted what the area has."

I couldn't agree with you more. Well said. My experience too is that the people who are most critical of Buffalo are those who have never left and have unrealistic perceptions of the rest of the country.

I too moved here from outside the area (NYC metro) and feel that Buffalo is one of the best kept secrets in the country. Sure.. it has its problems, but what area doesn't? The state of New Jersey, the most densely populated in the nation (and one of the most affluent), has a government that almost went bankrupt last year. Problems with government, taxation, and spending, plague many areas.

Carl,

you got it man..ain't it a shame..comon back, I here the owner of the statler needs an architect and pays really well.

Man all these people leavin Buffalo are racists! Naw, just kidding but on the serious tip if you have the chance to go to Austin or LA then get up out this biatch. There ain't nothin happenin here that ain't happenin there if ya know what I mean. Pretty soon all yall be livin in the same 20 places sittin in traffic and thinking about how great it is to be out of Buffalo. So enjoy the trip to Boston/N/ Philly/ Baltimore/ Washington/Atlanta/Miami/Austin/Houston/Dallas / Chicago/Denver/ Seattle/LA/ San Fran/San Diego/Phoenix/Memphis/ Raleigh or Charlotte. There aren't a lot of hoppin' places that are so much better than Buffalo that it is worth the trip beyond these 20 and I know that youll meet a lot of friends from Buffalo when you get there. Youll prolly meet a lot of peeps from Pittsburgh, Detroit and KC too.

Prodigal - I agree, I didn't mean limit comparisons only to other metros of 1 million.

Not everyone is leaving a city of 1 million for a city of 1 million.

My point was to distinguish comparisons to mega-cities. NY, LA, and DC/Bal are among four largest metros as of 2000 (other is Chicago). When people praise Buffalo by criticizing very huge cities I agree with them, but to me it overlooks many mid-size cities having similar advantages as Buffalo *and* for whatever reasons (some would say greater range of career opportunities is one reason) are growing population. The six mid-sized metros I listed in previous comment all have good growth. Your examples of growing Seattle, Austin, and Co. Springs are also fair comparisons to Buffalo, and to each other.

Nothing I wrote should be misread as saying there's nothing good about Buffalo or that there's absolutely no good jobs here. I never write that. This BR article was about Buffalo's growth in state aid money, needed in large part because this area for many decades has had way below average growth in population, tax base, etc. Some comments pointed out our state aid growth is accompanied by high state taxes, which in turn have harmed the economy, tax base, population.

oldimpala

Let me guess. You work for the government.

Carl

You don't seem to connect the taxes you don't object to and "the stupidity and gullibility of the local and state leaders [who] squander them."

If that tax money stayed in your pocket, you could make your own decisions on how to spend it and you wouldn't need to worry so much about the clowns who run the government around here.

And how do you fail to connect the high taxes with the lack of job opportunities? Businesses don't go where they are taxed to death.

There's a lot of denial in this thread. What don't you understand about high taxes, overregulation, and highest union membership in the country causing 50 straight years of decline?

Too many government agencies employing too may workers making too much money!

That $100,000 going to a retiring cop who wrote parking tickets can't go to capital investment to create job opportunities for Carl. It's real simple. But if you are living large on the system like triple-pension dippers, you have to deny all this or you couldn't sleep at night thinking that your greed destroyed your community.

One more thing. Several people used the term "mind" and "taxes" in the same sentence. You miss the point of what a tax is. The point of taxation is that your mind doesn't matter. They don't care whether you "mind" or not.

That's why the taxman carries a gun and can put you in prison if you don't pay up.

It's a delusion to think that your taxes are being spent you way you want since the whole point of taxation is that YOU are not to be trusted to spend your money the way you want.

Jim-

As I stated above, I work in Telecom. I can be located anywhere I choose; the original job I took was managing people in Buffalo. My new position in on a virtual team, I interact daily with people from NYC, NJ, Seattle, Dallas, Boston, Richmond, Atlanta, and a half dozen other places. I can be anywhere I have an internet connection, phone, and airport.

Neither myself, nor my wife work for any government. Local, state, or federal. Neither of us are union employees, though the associates in my company are CWA/IBEW, I'm a few rungs up in management.

Unions can be restrictive, no doubt. You and I could get into a wonderful debate about globalization, the rise/decline of manufacturing societies, theory of industrial revolution(s), and phases of economies. All apply to Buffalo, and though unions exacerbate it, are NOT the primary cause. The US, in total, is leaving industry. Buffalo just held on to manufacturing too long; the writing had been on the wall since the mid-40's. Short sided civic and political leaders put us here, combined with the unions. Plenty of blame to pass around. If you'd like to see a roadmap of our society, look at Great Britain, about 20 years ago. That's us, today.

As far as "minding" taxes, if I truly did Mind the taxes, and felt they were limiting, I would leave. You DO have a choice. You don't like property taxes, don't buy a house here. You don't like fuel taxes, take the bus. And, so on. We all make choices. I've done the low tax/South thing. I voted with my feet, moved north. Even though taxation is inevitable, your choice to stay here isn't. I feel the benefits outweigh the costs. Period. And obviously, many others do, too. Many have left, it's their choice. So, yes, those who mind can leave. Even the country, if they choose. Shocking, ain't it?

I'm not denying the city/state needs help. I drive past the waterfront every day, work downtown amidst vacant buildings, and live in one of the highest taxed portions of the country. Period. And it's not just payroll, it's property, and embedded taxes. I'm working with three others to launch a startup business; I know how bad NY can be.

So horrible in fact, I choose to stay.

We'll save the debate on "How to fix it" for another day.

"It's a delusion to think that your taxes are being spent you way you want since the whole point of taxation is that YOU are not to be trusted to spend your money the way you want."

Wow. And all along I thought it way to pay for projects that were unprofitable, expensive, and that individuals couldn't/wouldn't do, like roads, water systems, police, schools, etc. Who knew?

-Andy

PS: The job market here isn't that bad, you just need a marketable field. I regularly get recruiter calls...... And have found jobs, as I stated, for friends with local companies many times... If Carl wanted to come back, and looked hard enough, that terrible, horrible, mean, greedy, OT loving Cop wouldn't keep him away.

Sorry I guessed wrong but many government workers extol the payment of taxes around the local blogosphere, not disclosing that they are the prime beneficiaries. Technically, if you receive more in taxes than you pay in, you’re consuming them, not paying them.

"Wow. And all along I thought it way to pay for projects that were unprofitable, expensive, and that individuals couldn't/wouldn't do, like roads, water systems, police, schools, etc. Who knew?"

All the items you list have been provided in the private sector without taxes.

Your grammar is interesting. My point is about taxes per se, but you speak of "the taxes," meaning in Buffalo. You can escape them by moving but you will then be taxed wherever you go so my point remains valid. The point of taxation is to strip away from the individual decisions as to how his money is spent and place them in the government because the individuals won't spend it on the right stuff.

Having placed that money out of our reach, it is missing the point of it all to complain that it is not being spent the way we want. That's the whole point of taxation. It then becomes axiomatic that no matter how wasteful we think are the things the money is spent on, it is never wasteful from the point view of those who spend it. The $100,000 pension for the retired cop is by no means wasted from his point of view.

To sum up, if things are paid for by taxes, the money will be spent the way the politicians and bureaucrats want, not the way the taxpayers want. Further, but no time to develop this here, it will be spent accordingly to the subjective self-interest of government officials since they can’t possibly know how we would spend the money if we still had it.

Cut taxes; keep the money here in the first place. And we pay for the subsidies throughout the state too. That's the price of this "free" money.

ArkoWillie - This article wasn't about the kind of state spending that some people would argue helped boost the Albany area's sector economy (such as $1B subsidy of AMD nanotech). This is about big growth in state aid to Buffalo's city government. I doubt that's the kind of spending that helped the Albany area, because it's the same kind of aid given to all of the state's city govts every year.

You're right if Hoyt didn't push to grow state aid to Buffalo City Hall there'd be some griping about that too, but it'd be inconsistent if from same people who gripe about runaway state spending growth.

Hoyt is perceived by many as the status quo. That makes him polarizaing, so any mention of him bringing money might open a debate about the state and region. He has a career of supporting high state taxes and high growth of state spending. Growth of NY state taxes and spending the past few decades had been at or near highest of any state in the U.S. During those same decades, Buffalo, WNY, and Upstate have lost population at or near the fastest rate of any metro and region in the U.S. Coincidence or at least partly cause-effect? Hard to prove. Hoyt also pushes a lot of legislation over the years that unions want - pretty different that way from what Chris Collins is doing.

People love Hoyt's record if they agree with growth we've had in state spending and taxes, and if they agree with stronger laws wanted by unions. Fortunately for him, that's a big majority of voters around here.

"All the items you list have been provided in the private sector without taxes."

I don't think the best scenario that fits that is a developer than builds a subdivision himself but then pawns off the upkeep of it forever to the host municipality. Hardly without taxes. Also without other tax funded infrastructure projects there wouldn't be anything for his little chunk of the world to connect to.

Public transportation was for a long time a private enterprise but with federal subsidization of highways and automobiles they all folded under the new government manipulated 'free' market. If there was an actual free market the automobile would still be for the rich and all roads would be toll roads. Taxes are inevitable and yes it is possible to not 'mind' taxes because the government can pull together and build things that no private person or corporation would ever dare doing. Space travel, the internet, sewer system, highways are all things that private corporations wouldn't dare start themselves, because of costs and risks, that the government was needed to create. After a while corporations learn how to use these new systems and make money and they become more private and profit driven but they were all started and continue to be controlled by the government and our taxes.

Somehow I am ok with the government deciding where my tax money has gone, it allows me to type on this blog, feel safe in my country and flush my toilet. I don't think a life without taxes would be a better life. Sure there are certainly some aspects of government spending that have gotten out of control or frivolous but to condemn all taxes as some government ploy to strip away individuality decision making ability is a little far fetched.

Then again look at crime rates and taxes, some of the cheapest places to live have some of the worst crime statistics in the country. Have fun check out the National Atlas sometime.

http://www.nationalatlas.gov/natlas/Natlasstart.asp

As a resident of Buffalo I would like to thank all the suburban taxpayers who work hard for their paychecks, struggle with their school taxes, ask their local officials to run services efficiently , and participate in community events so their neighborhoods are safe and successful, for giving extra millions of dollars,via Sam Hoyt, to a mayor and common council which will only waste it, as they have with the hundreds of millions of dollars which you have given to Buffalo's leaders in the past. With a shrinking population the mayor and council still cannot shrink the number of employees nor can they even figure out a way to do that in the future. Instead they plan only on hiring more employees based on their delusional belief that Buffalo is undergoing a renaissance and families are clamoring to move into the city limits.

Horray! PORK! Increased spending! Good going Sammy!

and you can hear the unions clapping from here....

"the mayor and council still cannot shrink the number of employees"

the council shrank from 13 - 9 many years ago. They also cut back on staffers. The city's payrolls shrunk by almost 30% under the Masiello administration, they fought and got one man cop cars... All things most people can't "see" with their eyes so they assume he was a BS kind of guy.

Brown is a problem here, he is stuck supporting the unions and filling their ranks to the brim. 100 more cops and are our streets any safer? I don't feel any safer knowing there are 100 more people to run red lights and collect huge overtime checks.