Buffalo Rising Online

flyguy, perhaps you will find these facts encouraging in "Buffalo Climbs in Job Rankings". http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2007/04/02/daily52.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Given the history of this project, and perhaps others, I would like to see a website set up that chronicles each and every step of this process. This is being kickstarted with public funds so I think we have the right to have access to the details above and beyond what elected or appointed officials dole out.

well 3 cheers for bass pro. However they must reconstitute the vision they have for the canal district. Bass pro is a great idea to connect people to the area, however the vision is diluted and too many keys are being placed in bass pros hands. Im not impressed with the parking solution and the layout that is separate from basspro(the richardson version) is reminiscent of the old buffalo airport terminal. Separate and unequal ideas. Bass pro gets the whole expanse of waterfront and our canal is just too short. I know it all sounds like a personal problem but the bruised business of basspro does no favors for the rest of the design.

great upgrade from having it at the aud. Though that huge parking roof is not doing much for the city. think fucellio with a retractable roof.

This reporting is irresponsible. Here's some facets of the agreement left out:

1) Without an RFP, Benderson Development will be given the City-owned parcels (if the Council sells them to ECHDC at a nominal fee) in the Canal District project area, the Webster Block, the Donovan Block, and the demolished Memorial Auditorium for TEN DOLLARS. It is a Halliburton-style swindle that gives away almost the entire southern portion of downtown Buffalo to a single strip mall developer with no record of success in appropriate urban development. For a lesson in how well they do, look no further than downtown Niagara Falls, NY.

2) Benderson Development would be given the exclusive right of first refusal for the DL&W Terminal and the Marine Drive apartments parking lot, meaning they have an exclusive right to purchase the properties in a future phase should the ECHDC obtain ownership of them.

3) The ECHDC would devote much of NYPA proceeds to multiple parking ramps, forfeting money for parks and waterfront access to free car storage for Benderson tenants and Bass Pro at a cost of $20,000+ per space.

4) The Memorial Auditorium would be demolished, essentially a $10 million subsidy, and the land sold for $1 to Benderson Development to construct a massive parking ramp.

5) After $47 million is spent preparing the infrastructure at Erie Canal Harbor, the land would be given away for almost free to Benderson Development.

Anyone who reads the pre-development agreement will see that Bass Pro is only a small part of the development agreement. It's a Benderson swindle! Anyone else here want to purchase the downtown waterfront for $10 without a public hearing? Anyone here want to undo ten years of public discussion, environmental reviews, lawsuits, and ultimately community consensus on an internationally award-winning Erie Canal Harbor Master Plan? Anyone here want to trample on the public trust by discarding a decade-long community process by proposing a big box store and attached "historic" parking ramp in place of a mixed-use, intimate scaled neighborhood as originally proposed? Start donating to every politician in town! You have a long way to go before you catch up to Nate Benderson and ECHDC's employee, Larry Quinn.

Ah... didn't realize the agreement was attached. In that case, good work, Anna Miller! Everyone can read the agreement for themselves. Anna touched on a few points, but read carefully. For more than $125 million is subsidies, we'd get nothing more than an Auburn-sized "historic" Bass Pro, parking ramps, and undefined development by one of the least qualified, but most politically connected, developers in Western New York. We have a great vision for Erie Canal Harbor already in place, receiving international recognition for its design quality and sensitivity to historic restoration. We should do everything possible to protect the community's vision for the waterfront! Buffalo deserves better!

Didn't Benderson move it's HQ out of WNY and down to florida? Why are we allowing an out of town firm to develop the inner harbor? And if we allow an out of town firm to do it then why not try and get a more reputable firm that can develp this on the grand scale it deserves?

The Erie Canal Harbor Master Plan received international recognition: www.dexigner.com/architecture/news-g6424.html

The Final Erie Canal Harbor Master Plan, which culminates ten years of effort and millions of dollars in state and federal funding, can be found here: http://www.nylovesbiz.com/popup/features.asp?id=15

The Urban Renewal Amendment, passed as a result of the federally-mandated, court-imposed NEPA review, specifically prohibits big box stores and cites an intimate, pedestrian building scale contantly throughout the document. The Central Wharf was set aside as a public gathering place to assure the development parcels and pedestrian thoroughfares maintained visual and physical connections to the water. Bass Pro would sever that connection, interrupt the scale of the district, and violate the vision set forth in the planning document.

"All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures." - Julius Caesar

so we are getting a bass pro 3 parking garages and the "hope" that Benderson the king of characterless blah will do something special with this area. way to go guys.

I too would like to know how and why Benderson got the contract without an RFP. But remember too, many notable developers have come to town with promises but none have followed through. (Can't remember why or who to fault, but let's safely assume previous city officials would get at least 50 percent of the blame.) Having said that, Benderson is the developer so we (all taxpayers) should be given the opportunity to view and vet the designs---and monitor any cheesy "bait & switch" ideas (arrgghh).

This current project is the most concrete so far even if it’s non-binding at this juncture. During the official announcement it was made clear (by Mindy Rich, I believe) that until the environmental impact studies are completed, a binding contract can’t be signed by any party.

Like Benderson, Bass Pro is here. Let's embrace that store if only to know that other retailers always want to follow Bass Pro.

It doesn't bother me that prime Central Wharf waterfront land is now destined for retail. Why do so many think the Central Wharf is: -- Sacred? -- It’s not. Jeez, even the Alamo has a wax museum across the street from it. -- The only prime piece of waterfront land around? -- Are you kidding. We’ve got south of Hamburg to every point and inlet north through the Tonawandas on to the Rapids Park. -- The best place for open space? -- It never was open space in the 1800s? It was dedicated to commercial interests up to the shore and canal.

There are hundreds of acres in the Outer Harbor to be developed and that is THE prime land for parks, promenades, and pavilions. Wait for bridge that Brian will build. It’s MUCH BETTER that land within/nearest downtown is dedicated to retail, commercial and large scale residential developments---and lots of each!

The importance of keeping the Central Wharf primarily an open space area is to assure that Perry, Hanover and Lloyd streets maintain physical and visual connections to the water. As the above rendering, put together by a guy who contributes graphics work to the Buffalo Sabres website (not an architect), shows, the development parcels behind the proposed Bass Pro are effectively no longer waterfront property, but face onto the blank wall of a Wegmans-sized big box store.

There is merit to having some smaller scale buildings (and the activity it generates) brought up to the shoreline, but the best way to do that is to not implement the South Basin boat moaring area, which unnecessarily eliminates waterfront property that could be set aside for development. In the existing proposal, a few million will be dropped to create this slip area for about 30 boats. It would be set aside almost exclusively as a show area for Bass Pro, not the general public.

The environmental impact statement will, indeed, be a gateway to progress because it will kill this plan!

The pdf site plan that I downloaded from the wgrz website list the Aud footprint as "Retail, Federal Parking, 1000 Spaces". What does Federal Parking refer to? Maybe I'm just having a brain camp, but I don't get it.

Thanks!

Ok, everyone...is it me or has no one looked at a map of the Harbor location relative to the Marina, the Skyway and the DL&W.

Is it me or is there a gap between this development and the DL&W to which I am increasingly shocked that no one reallizes that rebuilding the DL&W concourse would provide the perfect link between the Cobblestone District, Light Rail Station and the Bass Pro Development.

But as usual the NFTA will not extend the light rail, nor will they talk with the ECHDC about rebuilding the concourse and connecting the development nor will they incorporate redevelopment of the Bass Pro Harbor District with the redevelopment of the DL&W.

ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT THE DL&W CONCOURSE WOULD BE AN INCREDIBLE BRIDGE BETWEEN TWO DISTRICTS.....AND IT WOULD RIGHT THE WRONG OF DEMOLISHING THE CONCOURSE MANY YEARS AGO....WE MIGHT EVEN BE ABLE TO ATTRACT THOSE GREAT LAKES CRUISE SHIPS TO DOCK IN BUFFALO.

Chris69, there is an alternative proposal circulating in the preservation community that would see Bass Pro occupy the DL&W alongside other businesses and cultural attractions instead of on the Central Wharf. That option would be acceptable to most parties opposing the location on the Central Wharf as it would not require undoing the Erie Canal Harbor Master Plan, would not sacrifice open space or waterfront access, and would reuse a valuable building. The rebuilding of the terminal building and the reestabslishement of the pedestrian ramp into the Canal District could be part of that development. So, yes, you're onto something, and there is movement to see this alternative explored.

Well dont count me in on that plan....the last thing Buffalo needs is more parks and open space....have you walked thru our downtown and urban neighborhoods other than Elmwood Delware and Hertel?

I THINK THE MASTER PLAN SUCKED! BUFFALO'S WESTERN TERMINUS OF THE ERIE CANAL HAD OVER 1000' OF WHARF. NOW WITH THE BASIN MARINA WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE THE 1000'!

HOWEVER WE COULD HAVE A COMMERCIAL WHARF THAT GOES FROM THE THE WESTERN TERMINUS TO THE DL&W/COBBLESTONE DISTRICT.

What has Riverside Park done for Riverside? What has Front Park and LaSalle Park done for the Westside? What has Squaw Island and the Black Rock Canal done for Black Rock? What has Masten Park done for the Masten District?

Buffalo needs a commercial wharf to bring employers to Buffalo and their employees and tourists.

Lets remember...Buffalo just dropped from 42 to 46 as far as size of metro area because of population loss (relative and absolute)

Lets remember...Buffalo is one of the poorest cities and least educated in NYS

Lets remember...Buffalo has some of the best parks in the state already

Lets remember...we have been losing jobs for 75 years and the hemmorhaging isnt finished!

WHAT ARE YOU GREEN BRAINS TRYING TO CREATE....MORE PARK BENCHES FOR THE POOR, UNEDUCATED AND UNEMPLOYED TO SLEEP ON!

ITS JOBS THAT GIVE PEOPLE DIGNITY!

GIVE ME AN IDEA OF A WHARF THAT STRETCHES ALONG THE BUFFALO RIVER UP TO SQAW ISLAND/NIAGARA STREET.

OR GIVE ME AN IDEA OF A WHARF THAT STRETCHES ALONG THE OUTER HARBOR TO THE WESTERN TERMINUS ALL THE WAY UP TO SQUAW ISLAND/NIAGARA STREET.

OR GIVE ME SOME COMBINATION OF BOTH!

BUT DONT GIVE ME MORE PARK SPACE AND OPEN SPACE...THE WESTERN TERMINUS OF THE ERIE CANAL CREATED ONE OF THE LARGEST WHARFS IN THE GREAT LAKES AND NORTHEAST! AND IT SPONSORED A CANAL SYSTEM THAT EXTENDED ALL THE WAY INTO SOUTH BUFFALO AND LACKAWANNA FILLED WITH VITALITY, EMPLOYMENT AND BUSINESES OF ALL KINDS....WHICH IS WHAT BUFFALO DESPERATELY NEEDS!

IM SICK TO DEATH OF HEARING ABOUT PARKS AND OPEN SPACE! FOR WHO...THERES PRACTICALLY NOBODY EMPLOYED LEFT TO GO TO ANY OF THEM

Tell you what! Figure out how to replace the 250,000 people and jobs that have left our city and region in the last oh say 50 years....and then our city will be filled with so much vitality that I will be your ally in creating new parks.

By the way....expand Masten and Humbold Park....sure, expand Delaware and Riverside...sure, expand South Park and Cazenovia....absolutely!

However, LaSalle is much to big and id love to see some Master Plan from the Buffalo/Kenmore Town Line all the way to the Buffalo/Lackawanna Town Line. Lets come up with some commercial and employment stimulating ideas instead of just parkland.

Lastly....you want parkland and greenspace.....instead of legislating it thru parkland....START A DAM MOVEMENT FOR PEOPLE TO PLANT TREES! There are many streets in Buffalo that have absolutely no canopy at all! You want greenspace...start with our urban and residential streets!

Oh goody! The preservation community is working behind the scenes on a plan to put Bass Pro in the DL&W terminal. Have all the backroom meetings you wan,t as long as you stay out of the way of this development. Where was your proposal for Bass Pro in the DL&W terminal 2 years ago? What a joke.

preservationists need to come to the table before plan are made to ensure their focus is realized and not after the fact as has been their m-o for so long.

The so called "preservationists" have been out in the open about their intentions since day one. I guess its their fault that they had hoped the development team would do it right, and not constantly come out with the latest F'd up plan. If it wasn't for the preservationists, we wouldn't have the original re-watered canal slip and the preservationists pushed for the previous plan Chrish mentioned that won national awards.

Do you guys realize that the actual subsidy here for Bass Pro is $125-$130million, for the shell of the building and the infrastructure needed to place the store there, thats far more than most of you complained when it was going in the Aud.

Ya know, I was ready to swallow my tongue before this deal came out, hoping that it would be decent, and just go with Bass Pro, cause we'd finally have a plan to move forward with. But this plan is absolutely disgusting. We're plopping a giant Big Box store along the entire Buffalo River space - whos gonna go on that boardwalk, there will be nothing there but the walls of the store?! No shops, no restaurants, no attractions, no nightlife. At the very best, we can hope Bass Pro places 1 single stinkin entrance towards the water, but really why would they, their parking lot is on the other side???

What you see in those renderings aren't renderings at all, they're just massing studies and mean nothing as far as how the construction is actually going to look.

Furthermore, it sounds like this architectural review board is going to be a complete joke. 2 members designated by ECHD, 2 members from Mayor Brown???? The same Mayor Brown who was worried about a proposed building downtown because it would eliminate 30 parking spots? The same Brown who can't recognize a videotape of his own son, let alone decent architecture? Cause any of those people have decent architecture experience?!?!?! Give me a friggin break!

I could go on and on...

LOL...WE'LL SEE... As to the job growth, that is real, but anyone catch the NY times article on population's 2 days ago? Buffalo is now ranked #3 for shrinking cities and Erie county as a whole has been losing 5,000 a year. Those numbers speak volumes.

what about just modifying the proposed Bass Pro building so that is allows the streets to cut through it, create a high arched "tunnel" not small but something 20 feet tall so you see sky and water from the streets behind it. It would actually create rather beautiful frames from the streets behind it, connecting them back to the waterfront. Bass Pro can occupy the middle section and then spread out onto the floors above the arch. It would also open up the potential for putting smaller businesses on either side of Bass Pro so it isn't just one business for the whole wharf which is a dumb idea. Where am I a going to buy ice cream? Bass Pro? or walk for 3 blocks around the building to get to the other storefronts.

Sounds like just an altered design could alleviate a lot of the concerns wit h Bass Pro's location. This is done in many cities usually in Europe and it is a nice way to give businesses the space they want but keep connections for pedestrians and transportation. The key is to make the arch big.

As for the park I agree that this is downtown this is the place fo have businesses fronting the water, assuming there is a boardwalk, that is publicly accessible by foot in front of them (UNLIKE SHANGHAI REDS)

you sound like a rational person who's opinion we should respect....

Well articulated Mr. O'Brien. If you eliminate the F-word you can get your rant down to about 1-2 sentences. Hopefully you"ll show up in next round of Census data in the net outtward migration column.

Wow O'Brien nice post. In addition to being up to date on fashion, you are obviously an authority on culture, class, and the English language.

Regarding Bass Pro I'm not going to lose any sleep over the Benderson thing as long as they build what they promised and on time.

Chrisobrien- take your disgruntled self somewhere else then. You are neither supporting nor detracting from the rise or fall of Buffalo, you are null in this equation.

Developers cant build whatever they want.

The town/city code provides guidelines on what can or cant be done. Towns/cities have an approval process that everyone must go through prior to building.

It's up to our elected officials to make sure that what gets built is fitting of the central wharf. Not benderson.

sbrof, Why would I or anyone want to see the lake through a tunnel? I'd much rather look down Main St. (or any downtown street) and see activity: people on the street, buildings built or going up!, and other visual interests. If I want to see the lake--I'll walk to the shore of the lake and look at it.

Townline, Do everyone a favor and don't 'go on and on' sharing your misguided facts. The Bass Pro project is not costing $125M in costs. Infrastructure costs are needed to create the ability to develop ANY development in an area where there are none. Regarding 'big box': Please learn the definition and then stop using it for Bass Pro. It doesn't apply to that entity. Jeez, if everyone (including me) would just educate themselves on the FACTS before we rant or drop opinions, then our discussions would be more productive.

* * Renderings: They are just that--renderings. So let's not argue about where a door may or may not be. It's not productive. Besides, why would Bass Pro not put in more than one entrance!

All the arm-chair folks should really get a life and let the process evolve--then be sure to wake up at the appropriate time and show up at the public meetings that really count to give input. It's one thing to type your blah blah on the Web, and another thing to get off your a** and show up if you have issues with this or anything else.

The 'Preservationists' secret society back-room plan alluded to above is a joke. Either find a way to get in the process early--or get out of the way. I appreciate all that has or will be done to preserve structures will viable uses but you can’t always have it your way. Enough is enough. There is a City and a community that needs things done "yesterday." It’s clear that jobs and development, with more on the horizon, are at stake with the Plan.

The 'Plan" states that all buildings in the district will be designed to reflect the 1800s period--so we're going to get what everyone wants: a representation of the buildings that did exist down there at one time. Nothing exists there today--so whining about things not looking like “this or that” isn't relevant. The overwhelming need is to create something NOW to save the psyche of the City. Moaning about the need to have little local boutiques and/or grass at the Central Wharf isn't enough to make big things happen down there. Attractions are needed to get the interests of City, but mostly non-City residents, thus creating a synergy enabling more retail, entertainment and living options in the near future.

This plan is just plain disgusting. Why do we settle for this low-rise suburban stripmall crap for what could be the most beautiful part of the city? We need a plan that we can be proud of, something with heart and soul that our kids will be proud of, instead of settling for this crap. This plan has no soul, it is just a comprise to make no one happy. The Donovan building and Aud should be removed this year and replaced with 15+ story mixed-use high rises with first floor retail or commercial, then class-A office space or residential on the upper floors. A third building should be erected in the parking lot on Washington Street and a fourth in the parking lot on Perry Street adjacent to the HSBC Atrium. The new convention center should be part of this plan and should be built on the site of the Cobblestone District parking lot. They should all be mixed use buildings, 10 - 30 stories high with views of the city/ baseball stadium or the river / lake. These will bring the ex-pats living in the suburbs back home to the city. The current plan does nothing for the city. Build something that would make Jane Jacobs proud, not the crap that Benderson has proposed.

It is all about the mixed-use high rise people.

. It would be so much better as a ten+ story mixed use high-rise, we could put shops on the lower level, ACS in the middle floors and residential in the top floors. Top it off with a penthouse suite that overlooks the city! Jane Jacobs would be scoff at this design and so should we.

Can we ban the use of the word "mixed use" from this site.

Every building can't be mixed use.

To the dissenters... look, it may not be anyone's ideal of what to do with the wharf, but given the track record for other urban redevelopment projects in Buffalo, if this project gets blocked it will likely take years and years for anything else to materialize here. As for putting in lots of mixed use buildings, well guess what, people are leaving Buffalo and they aint coming back. True, they are building those downtown lofts etc, but the idea that there will be a thriving downtown full of these mixed-use buildings is unrealistic. If we put up a Bass pro, people will be drawn from all around the region, not just the city. The overall region is declining in population only very slowly, as opposed to the city, so local economic factors are less likely to turn this into just another failed downtown Buffalo redevelopment project.

well the tunnel would not be huge, it would seem more like an archway, doorway, or frame to the lake from the historic streets behind it. Better than staring against a blank brick wall, and by dividing their first floor footprint you would provide more opportunity for activity and development than a single store can create. There still will be a Bass Pro, fine, BUT there will also be opportunities for other stores to share the wharf and bring the other streets into this mix. Someone mentioned that putting a large building on the wharf cuts off the other streets and that is true. It would be a very simple but elegant way to connect this whole area to the water,which is the most important part, and keep, bass pro but create even MORE options for activity and life on the waters edge.

LOL...I knew it, reading todays paper the lawsuits are going to start lining up, I bet my last dollar Bass Pro pulls out. Sad, very sad if this waterfront project fails. No Hotel on Elmwood, a lawsuit to stop construction of class A office space downtown, complaints about how buildings look [the very few that are going up]. Sorry, but a few condo's do not make a city. After 3 years of living here and watching all this from the sidelines I see why Buffalo is probably never going to really come back in our life time [add the 12 people a day leaving according to the news], if at all. Damn Pity. This re-pat is considering being an ex-pat....again

"When life hands you a lemon, say "Oh yeah, I like lemons. What else you got?"Henry Rollins

Maybe this is the best that we can do and this is going to be as good as it gets for the waterfront. I think we should all take a chance on ourselves and back something that will change the look and feel of the area. We are about seeing Buffalo Rise after all, not about keeping it mired in the past or made impotent by anxiety and indecisiveness.

STRANGE. Those individuals who oppose Bass Pro and have complained bitterly about not enough public input, are now trying to organize their own secret Putsch behind the scenes, with no public input..