Another example of Albany knowing whats best for Buffalo and Western NY better than the residents who live and work here!

This is completely ass backwards....its our regional transportation department...its supposed to be run and managed locally....but its just a facade...following the dictates of albany

Thats what Buffalonians need to be fighting for....these local authorities are supposed to be local institutions for the betterment of the local economy and the local residents...not albany...and we should be fighting for local control of ALL our institutions.

How is Riverkeeper's plan really better in the ways being claimed here if it eliminates the planned new low-speed parkway in favor of a one wide Niagara Falls Blvd style higher-speed heavy traffic at-greade street where all traffic must mix together (commercial, commuter, and those who would have chosen the low speed parkway)?

Since the project IS being done it should be done right weather Buffalo is shrinking or not. The economy of Buffalo is irrelevant in this subject. The road IS being built why not do it so that it is most advantageous and less wastfull of resources. Spending money to make 2 roads at this site instead of one is indefensible.

As for not opening up prime land for development because of a shrinking metro population - funny how that argument is never made when each new suburban subdivision is planned

Your server STINKS!

I'm all for helping less fortunate individuals but "The only way to successfully make that happen is to subsidize housing and plan the community in a way that supports people from all socioeconomic strata." sounds pretty socialist to me but thats just my opinion. Help less privileged but don't loose a sense of work ethic doing it. People succeed through the belief that they are aiming for a purpose, In the case of housing, one should work hard and their goal may then be able to afford to live in a such an area as the "water front"

So why didn't they speak up when the state was having hearings?

allfit - Maybe Paul and others are doing Buffalo a favor by taking their tax revenue. A lot of it would be wasted here anyhow as things stand, so so aren't they helping NY state face the need to be more efficient?

And if Paul was still living in Buffalo wouldn't he be taking a job that some current Buffalonian needs? As BuffaloBloviator pointed out a few times on BR, it's good for Buffalo's population to right-size to match the size of its private sector economy. Paul and other expats are doing the thankless job of making that happen. Bloviator, help me out here -- you can explain it better than I can. Something about GDP.

$500k an acre? Someone should check their comps

Excerpt from Saturday's Buffalo News:

'...Riverkeeper’s plan calls for leveling the elevated roadway, creating an at-grade four-lane boulevard. The plan also calls for eliminating the low-speed parkway boulevard that, under the state’s plan, would run along the lake side of the highway. That would open 77 acres for development, said O’Neill, who added the state could sell those development rights and more than make up for the cost of changing the plan during construction.

“It’s been a long time to get us to this point,” Carrier said. "We feel the approach that is currently under way was the parkway that was envisioned by the community after a more than 10-year process." '

Whole article: http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/niagaracounty/story/410585.html

This sounds like a horrible idea, let me get this straight. We shut off convenient access from the south by closing off Route 5 and the Skyway. We take out convenient access from the east by closing off the 33, and from the north by taking out the Niagara Section.

This sounds like a very myopic and ill conceived plan. I am confident that this will give future generations of Buffalonians a single focal point for the further demise of our Business District. Don't get me wrong, in the short run we may see some people move to Buffalo, probably fill in some areas of the city and buy out the waterfront condos or other residential projects. I am sure that this will put the government in the good graces of the developers, and will pay off some overdue debts and favors owed.

I am confident that this angle will be bled dry by our Mayor, and Congressmen, as a saving grace for Buffalo, but in the end it will result in further migration of business from the area and the next nail in the coffin for the City of Buffalo.

Alright, Riverkeeper! Way to go keeping up the pressure on this. And what a smart approach, making moot the counter-arguments against the boulevard that the money isn't there, or that with shovels already in the ground the project is set.

This project has implications beyond Buffalo - all over upstate (including here in My Fair City) we have grade-separated expressways that have sliced and diced our urban areas and need to be upgraded (I can't bring myself to use the standard parlance, 'downgraded') to surface boulevards, or even eliminated. This project will set an important precedent - and needs to set the right one.

It seems to me that the time has never been better to regroup the boulevard coalition and press this, especially in light of the positive Esmonde piece in the Buffalo News recently. Link here:

http://www.buffalonews.com/donnesmonde/story/406048.html

There are also several key political advantages at the moment: we have a new governor, so whatever deals were reached in the previous administration to allow the DOT's preferred option to go ahead no longer need hold. We also have an unusually high number of state legislature seats in play, and all the politicians who want to show their bonafedes in standing up to the Albany Bureaucrats on behalf of what their local constituents are making a compelling case for, will be likely to offer their support. At whatever point it becomes clear that the likely 2009 state delegation from Western New York is solidly behind the boulevard option, and opposed to the way the DOT is handling this, there could quickly be a U-turn. Then sit back and enjoy watching DOT officials pat themselves on the back for being responsive to local input...

...and given all the back-slapping that accompanied the opening of the canal harbor project, it's beyond me how some public officials seem not to have gotten the message that Buffalo won't sit still for the future of its waterfront being determined by state bureaucrats.

you are right gaustad. Poor people want to be poor because they dont look for better jobs. Handicapped people choose to be handicapped by not doing anything to make their limbs work. Black people choose to be black by not getting chemical peals. I understand what you are trying to say, but to say that people always choose to live the way they do is about as stupid as the analogies i just made.

RonR, what an awesome case you make in your comment - Amen!

Just curious but what did our elected officials say was the "best alternative"? Also for the record, while the sentiment is nice, but no parcel on the outer harbor has ever sold for anywhere close to $500,000 and acre, further, if your assume such a price due to the endless possibilities of development- think again, the outer harbor is one of the most heavily polluted areas in the region. The complete cleanup of the outer harbor was estimated to cost over $200 million (there were other options that allowed for development on some of the land in the $50 million range). Connected, unconnected, elevated or un-elevated- no sizable development is going to take place until we deal with the elephant in the room, the one that is actually hindering development.

PaulBuffalo - If you are concerned about Buffalo's tax base, then why not return and purchase property in Buffalo. It is really easy to tell us all about what needs to be done from your apartment in LALA land, but in reality you are contributing to the problem. I am glad that you are still passionate about the City of Buffalo, our residents, and your friends and family, but you are not doing anything for the city at this point in time.

Don't get me wrong, I am a lot like you. I drive through various parts of the EastSide and hope that things will improve, but I know that I would never invest in a house or building along Broadway because it is a losing investment. There are many opportunities to improve the streets and neighborhoods, and I see the beauty in what once was, but in the end I know that this area of Buffalo will remain a slum until the houses are torn down and the buildings decay due to neglect. I like to offer my viewpoints and form opinions on what should or could be done, but I know that I am not going to do anything for these neighborhoods. It is great to hope that someone else is able to see the opportunity and invest their money, but I know that it probably won't be me. I wouldn't wish for my worst enemy to have to live in some of these neighborhoods, and I pray for the children who have to grow up in these conditions.

People don't choose to be poor, or handicapped, or anything else, but many of these people have ample opportunity to improve themselves, their economic status, or at least to clean up the streets that they live on. Visit the houses with garbage strewn throughout the backyards, basements, and living spaces; see the deplorable conditions that people put themselves in, and you will see that some people choose their living conditions. It isn't up for me to try to better their living conditions, if they are renting a house or duplex then they can move to a better part of the city (like Black Rock or University Heights). If they own the house, then they have a vested stake in the condition of the community and they can join one of hundreds of community groups willing to make the conditions better. Even with all of this, the Eastside is still a slum ghetto that is all too often the only impression that people have of the city. If you are a suburbanite and your impression of the city comes from the news, then chances are you have a pretty hardset perception of Jefferson Ave, Woodlawn, East Ferry, Box, Bailey, Olympic, and Goodyear Avenues. This is what many people feel is the city, and this is why many people stay as far away as possible. Some even move to LA. :-)

1)of coarse the current set-up is too curvy. It's a detour. The new boulevard would follow the current path of the elevated highway. 2) of coarse Toronto makes do with their highway there. There is enough land pressure there for people to be wlling to deal with living next to an ugly elevated highway next door. 3) If shrinking is your plan, then it makes sense to make this area urban and dense so the county can shrink back in on itself. Buffalo should not be dsigned as a highway pass-through while we question why eveyone is passing right through. 4) If we are worried about costs, look at the long range costs of maintain two roads, brdiges etc for the next 50 years when we could just build one now with no bridges to maintain etc with some slightly higher up front costs.

I agree to do it right or not at all, why blow our money on a half-a55 job? but we can see they already started spending it so fight to do it right.

Well said all around RonR

77 acres is several times the existing Waterfront village, it is a lot of potentially taxable land. Some 40% of buffalo's land is nontaxable.. those are not just all churches. This would end up costing the city money is lost revenues in perpetuity. Who freaking cares about an extra 5 or even 10 minute commute time. Not city tax payers, so why the hell do we have to compromise our own future because of some perceived desire of southtown residents and commuters? But then again even the Hamburg mayor think the current Route 5 plan is wasteful.

I don't see Amherst, Clarence or Wheatfield doing anything that compromises their tax roles or livelihood for the benefit of city residents, why must we?

"In my opinion the ONLY thing broke in WNY is the mindset of those who live here and their voting habits. Everything else just needs a little common sense and an ounce of vision."

Dito that!

here, here!!!!

PaulB - you are too funny. I could care less if you post on BRO.

As always, you missed the point so I will spell it out for you:

Your comments are too bold and too argumentative for a guy that lives 3000 miles away.

I don't tell you how to live your life in LA, so don't tell me how to live my life in Buffalo.

Atwater, good to see you again.

PaulB and others who left are a detriment to Buffalo. not because we lost their tax base, but because they cloud the judgment of others on this site while they sit in others cities and preach to us how to manage the city.

gaustad- Black Panther? I'm a "white guy" and I grew up in Black Rock/ Riverside in the 60's during the days of integration and white flight. As for your comments, I don't know if you are racist, but you seem to speak the language.

This is the exact reason why everything takes year upon years to finish in this city.That is if it finishes at all. There was a time and place for these people to voice opinions and ideas. People like this hinder the progress being made. It's ridiculous, all they want to do is hear them selfs talk. "Buffalo Niagara Riverkeeper" has never been heard of until yesterday, please go back to where you came from. I can't believe these people even got the press that they did. It back fired and makes them look like fools anyway.

This is the exact reason why everything takes year upon years to finish in this city.That is if it finishes at all. There was a time and place for these people to voice opinions and ideas. People like this hinder the progress being made. It's ridiculous, all they want to do is hear them selfs talk. "Buffalo Niagara Riverkeeper" has never been heard of until yesterday, please go back to where you came from. I can't believe these people even got the press that they did. It back fired and makes them look like fools anyway.

gaustad- Your comments are transparently racist. I think you would be much happier in the suburbs, maybe heathersmiles could help you find a place.

We know the current highway is a deterrent to developing the waterfront. We have 50 years of evidence. Rebuilding it would be breathtakingly stupid.

For the record, Niagara Falls Boulevard is NOT a true boulevard. The Octavia Boulevard in San Francisco, which replaced the DOUBLE DECKER Central Freeway, is a true boulevard. See the links below:

http://www.ci.sf.ca.us/site/sfdpw_page.asp?id=32258 http://www.hayesvalleysf.org/html/archives/2005/2005_05-06/images/oct_blvd_trees_web.jpg

Allfit - Amen - good post!

Bini - although I often agree with your remarks, I find that amrchair Buffalonians really are not in touch with what is really going here. They are too bold in their remarks. Although I used to live in California for an extended period of time, I do not jump on their local websites and tell them how to make improvements, nor do I have time.

I post here because I am passionate about the city and I want to stay here. However, sometimes the outlook is so dreary that many young working professionals give up and leave, including myself.

PaulB - simply put, you are too argumentative for a guy that lives 3000 miles away. You really have no basis to make any kind of suggestions, because you just don't know how it really is in Buffalo day to day. Moreover, I feel you have way too much time on your hands in LA to post so often. If you are that concerned, why don't you just move home and make a difference as opposed to arguing with people that are in the trenches, fighting the fight every dam day!

Kooks, if the majority of homes on the east side are run down with debris in the yards, I can only assume that the majority have no interest in improving their neighborhoods and chose to live this way. There is no need to play the race card again, and tell me that black people have no choice, but to be black and therefore they can not help themselves. They can help themselves and they can move to the suburbs or somewhere else. I have seen many successful black families that are wealthy, motivated, and a fine addition to any neighborhood. How did they do it?

PaulBuffalo - You are absolutely correct! Let's turn the waterfront into a low - to - middle income neighborhood and give the most deserving a chance at a prime view of the lake. A community park with public beach front would center the community in much the same way that beach ties together the ocean front communities all along the Eastern shoreline. We have to do this right if we ever stand a chance of reuniting Riverside and Blackrock with the waterfront. If we take it one step further and relocate the development of a new international crossing for commercial traffic, then we could effectively build the new Buffalo from the water inward towards the suburbs, instead of the other way around.

I am sorry PaulBuffalo, I thought that you were a champion for the underprivileged, my mistake.

I believe that we should create a mixed-wealth community if we are going to create a community at all. The wealthy need to live near the underprivileged to ensure that they have empathy for those less fortunate. The only way to successfully make that happen is to subsidize housing and plan the community in a way that supports people from all socioeconomic strata.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want the less fortunate living near the waterfront?

RonR, we need to preserve as much green space as possible to reverse Global Warming. We need to consolidate the cities and return the distant suburbs to farm land and forests. We need to stop letting cars and trucks run rampant over our highways and return the space to the people. Trucks move faster than people and definitely faster than houses. Why should we move houses and people to make way for trucks?

We need to look out our less fortunate citizens, it is the noblest pursuit. We need to address unregulated greed and profiteering in America and look towards more progressive social programs to bring stability to our economy. The less fortunate and greedy rich create instability of the economy, the haves are always taking from the have nots. We need to focus on uniformity of opportunity, stop the bloodthirsty competition between people that unchecked greed creates and begin to do more for the underprivileged. Opening the waterfront to the poor, in houses subsidized by the rich, should do well to further this process. The rich should be working for their fellow citizens instead of working for their stockpiling wealth and other greedy pursuits. I see no reason that we could not offer the waterfront to the less fortunate through some of the most progressive social programs available anywhere in America.

We should learn from our brother countries in Europe who take care of their citizens through progressive tax structures and uniform health care. We should take the necessary steps to bring wealth to all people no matter how unfortunate their circumstances. The less fortunate are in their predicament due to circumstances outside of their control, we all know this to be true, so it is our duty to help them pull out of these circumstances at whatever cost.

Returning the road to the people is a good step, furthering development for the less fortunate is another great step, as PaulBuffalo indicated in another post. I think that if we all band together we could make Buffalo a truly progressive city that is a model for others to follow.

PaulBuffalo - You missed the point with your comment: "I don't live in Buffalo for a number of reasons, but to suggest that my comments on a website add to Buffalo's problems is silly.

Your contribution to the problem is that you fled the city. I don't blame you for leaving, or even care what your reasons are. I do find it peculiar that you talk about the need for Buffalo to increase tax revenues through high end properties while you took your tax contributions and took up residence in another state. Decreasing revenue for the city is one of the biggest problems that will get worse as residents will be expected to pay out more to make up the State deficit and may be expected to pay out more for Federal health care mandates (a program that I support).

I wonder if Buffalo is going to survive past the control board, with more people moving out than moving in. This is the problem that you are contributing to, I could care less if you post on BRO or any other website regardless of where you live.

haha i wasnt playing the race card by anymeans...i was just being a smart a*s

There really isn't a need for through trucks to travel in this part of the city. They should take the 290 to the 90 for east, west, and southbound traffic. It is the needs of the people that should prevail over the needs of greedy companies that are looking for shortcuts wherever possible. This section of beautiful waterfront is one of those shortcuts. Let's return the waterfront to the people.

I also think that we should bring more subsidized housing to the waterfront. All people need access to the water, and I am afraid that it will be reserved solely for th