Like daggers into the heart. Nothing to celebrate here folks, move along.

I'm for it................but was this just a progress report?

The rest of Buffalo could take a lesson from the Seneca tribe. They have a plan and they are executing on it. They have a goal and a sense of urgency that is lost on most other projects. If the Senecas owned the waterfront or the Aud then we would probably have a place to bring the family this summer instead of a dirt lot and chain link fences.

One thing about Buffalo Rising is that we pick and choose what to celebrate. You have a collective C-J over Bashar Issa doing nothing but hate anything that the Senecas do. You love commercial development downtown but hate the Bass Pro development. You love lofts and subsidies for the young bohemians but condemn inexpensive single family houses and subsidized living for the poor. You want thousands of people to move to Buffalo but you won't change anything to make it more hospitable and attractive. You condemn big box stores for their design and efficiency but then you hate the corner stores for their prices and the people who hang outside. Make up your minds people. What do you really want for Buffalo?

If the Senecas were paying taxes and competing on a level playing field with every other business, even though I don't like the project, I'd say go for it. But this project plays under its own rules, turns part of downtown into a sovereign foreign nation and will potentially put other places out of business. How many acts that used to perform at Shea's, Artpark, and the Tralf now play at the Seneca Niagara casino?

I always hope for the best for Buffalo, but I think this project will hurt more than help.

The same people who cry about Buffalo's loss of population cry about this project, which will employ thousands. Buffalo Creek will attract clientele who would never think of going downtown. And with the strong Canadian dollar, lots of Canadian gamblers who are tired of Niagara Falls will come. And while they're here they'll buy gas and shop at the Galleria (and perhaps one day they will shop in Buffalo). This is a big boost for the economy.

PS - I will visit Buffalo Creek but will not put two cents into a slot machine. Gambling is for suckers.

Bravo Seneca Nation! You say you are gonna do something and you do it! You cut through all the bureaucratic red tape and watch your projects from start to finish. Every other company and developer should be taking notes. All of you anti-development libs against this project can stay home when it's finally up. Having another reason to go to Buffalo, NY is only a good thing, and should help Buffalo Police with job security. I will be the first one to open a pawn shop/dollar store right outside!

allfit - best description of buffalo townies ive read in years....people want their cake and eat it too...they only want development if it fits a certain model, or doesnt involve knocking down a building from 1850 that harriet tubman passed by...the rest of the world is developing and buffalo is lagging behind...if you want jobs for you, your kids, and their kids, embrace development!

Yes.....take notes developers: Get a monopoly gaming compact from the state (which is illegal for anyone else to do), get the land you are building on to be designated sovereign and pay back 25% of slot revenues regardless of what you add to the site.

Who wouldn't do this?

Please feel free to point me to successful Seneca developments that are not based on a monopoly on casino gaming. I won't hold my breath. Driven through a reservation lately? Are they all new builds with bustling industry and jobs? What bureaucratic red tape is there on a sovegrn nation? Any developer here would have jumped on a deal such as this. You people are rediculus acting like this back room deal with the governor to by pass the state constitution in a money grab is a sign of a great developer.

We complain about subsidies but when properly accounted for this is pry our biggest subsidy ever. And it's to a sovereign nation

tonyarmani and allfit, do you seriously think there is an honest comparison to be made between the hurdles facing a Buffalo developer and the Seneca Nation? Do you really feel the Seneca Nation is taking huge risks and going out on a limb financially the same way another developer would to build a similiarly scaled project downtown? You do realize the seneca nation is building a casino right? Something the state has promised them a monoply of? Do you not get that? I can't stand these statements, "developers take note" or how about "if they owned all of the buffalo waterfront we'd have a place to bring the family instead of a dirt lot" - yeah, so the kids like gambling? that's about all they would build.

and damn that design still sucks. i'm sorry, but anyone defending it has no taste. that is a pile of dirt if i ever saw one.

heather b - what truth? you make as much sense as allfit.

Okay, heres the facts, the Senecas do lie, and will make money for themselves, but Buffalo will benefit. We will get some small amount of revenue from this thing. The county is going to give their share of the money to the city. build a casino - so what? you think they won't drive to the falls if we don't put one up? the hotel - well the senecas screwed us on this one... oh well. the land - no loss here, its a garbage piece of property downtown who really cares.. there is plenty of room downtown for development.

bottom line is people are going to the falls and ontario for this stuff, its too late to stop it. you can't build a wall around buffalo. so why not bring all the people to buffalo. Downtown is too dark at nite and scares off suburbanites. the senecas are going to build a big skyscraper in a city that is sorely hurting for big buildings...

So buffalo wins with jobs and some revenue, right now, we have neither one., all of that is going to Niagara county and Southern Ontario.

allfit- you are a baller. i couldnt have said it better myself. here we have a company with capital, will, and ambition who wont sit on a parking lot for ten years with a building planned with a crayon on a napkin. buffalo developers could take a few notes here

"The Senecas are making progress where others have failed" - what? ANYONE who has had the deal the senecas have - uniland, paladino, rocco, whoever, would have built a casino themselves and done so with the same speed and enthusiasm.. when you compare the casino to other development projects its apples to oranges. Do you really think casino income and preservation tax credits are equally lucrative?

Of course the senecas are going to win the development game when everyone else is barred from playing. Can Uniland can go ahead and build their own casino and tax fee hotel???

also nice job calling me a racist. I guess if i am skeptical of the casino, I must be a racist!

Quick, someone get NewB a dictionary. He's the sucker playing penny slots in the corner.

Comparing the Nation to a private sector developer is laughable. Clueless sheep. Baaaa!

Ruby - Nobody should cry about either of those. Crying is for losers.

The same people who cry about Buffalo's loss of population cry about this project, which will employ thousands.

People should just acknowledge reality about population, without spin or whining.

nyc and MJ - what your arguments ignore is that casino gambling is something many want to do. Look at how many 1000s of customers the temporary casino is drawing. About the monopoly aspect, NY state isn't promising the Senecas that they'll never amend the state constitution to just legalize it. Maybe that will happen eventually and that would remove the monopoly. But meanwhile its better to allow a tribe casino than to not allow casino gambling at all. There's already many other gambling options - video slots all over the place, video poker, many different lotteries, real slot machines in Hamburg and Ft Erie, OTB, horse tracks, casinos in Ontario, many kinds of high stakes Internet gambling. At least the casino provides some jobs, and the people who responsibly enjoy gambling as entertainment have it available instead of going to Ontario.

Probably the casino will be close to a wash for economic impact. Some will gain with jobs, some will lose with irresponsible gambling. Impossible to predict or even analyze after the fact what the ratio is because nobody can know how many of the people would've spent the same money to gamble by all those other ways if the casino wasn't here.

It is nice to see the casino project moving along, but Buffalo needs to think about the next step. Between the casino and the HSBC Arena is a big swath of mostly empty parking lots. The Cobblestone District is beginning to define itself, but this area could become a major entertainment draw with the right projects. Bring in some major attractions for families, some decent restaurants, maybe a couple of nicer bars, and I think the area would take off.

Instead of complaining about what sort of deal the Seneca's got, or who can get what done, we need to look at the opportunities for further development this project creates.

"nyc and MJ - what your arguments ignore is that casino gambling is something many want to do."

no where did I say this. All I say is make it fair or at least make fair comparisons. Let any developer develop anything they want in exchange for %25 of slot revenue. case closed, everyone is on the same playing field. Then you can make developer comparisons. EVERY Seneca cheerleader hear ignores my question. If they are such wonderful developers, please point to where on their reservations or on US soil they have done anything note worthy not funded by monopolistic Casino revenue.

The lottery? Its state run and non payouts go into our state budget. Same should be the case here. Like NF Ontario. Cable competition? Its called Satellite and internet. Phone Comp? Its called cable phone, internet phone, wireless.

Look at NF Ontario and look at NF USA. See how much is happening on the other side? See the spin off? I do. See it on our side? Wonder why? Casinos are gov't owned up there. All profits go back into making other projects/infrastructure or at least back into the gov't pool. Not just a small cut of one type of gaming while the rest goes to a sovereign nation. The playing field is level in NF Ontario and you can see the spin off.

I have no problem with Casino gaming. I have a problem with how we short cut our way to it and how we lose the maximum benefits that could have been had. Again, look at both sides of the Falls. Tell me what we have won? We look like shumks signing up for variable rate mortgages trying to keep up with our neighbors across the falls instead of taking the time to do it right.

Maybe in high school I would have had a chubby over a new tower. I've grown enough to look at the long run and return on benefits.

Want Issa to finish his tower? Offer him gaming rights on his own sovereign plot of land and all he has to do is give us %25 of his slot revenue. I bet it'll open shortly after the Seneca one and the competition will be welcome.

people are interested in things that have some sort of negative impact. One day you might be the lucky guy standing on the 190 with a gun.

Buffalo could use more interest on all sides of the fence. The investment is old time buffalo, with all the bells and whistles. They improved the plan; however what we are all realistically worried about is commitment. Perhaps that’s why people allude towards issa or maybe we just like to drown in sorrow and shame? I would rather build a casino here then the galleria mall part two, it will be interesting to see how this puppy integrates into our social fabric. We need the investment to do its job, bring people in and show them a good time.

Issa showed us how quickly a city like buffalo can find its grove. The city tower project was a big impact proposal, well you know what? We can still find ways to attract investment. The statler should have been immediately offered historic tax credits and I doubt anyone on this earth is going to allow that project to fail. They installed floors with lights under them for Christ’s sakes.

I hope the Seneca’s know a thing or two about old time buffalo.

MJ - Sorry if I misinterpreted your view favoring fully legalized casinos.

Let any developer develop anything they want in exchange for %25 of slot revenue.

I agree that'd be much better, so hopefully it happens some day. Past efforts to change state constitution for allowing privately owned casinos have been blocked in the Assembly. So that leaves 3 possibilities meanwhile - not allowing casinos, opening state-run casinos, or what they did with tribal casinos.

Look at NF Ontario and look at NF USA. See how much is happening on the other side? See the spin off? I do. See it on our side? Wonder why? Casinos are gov't owned up there.

I disagree with what you say that the difference in spinoff on the NF Ontario side vs. NF NY side is due to govt casino ownership. For one thing, as far as I know the NF Ontario side was much more thriving than NY side long before casinos on either side. So there's much more to it. Also, who's to say having NY state own and operate casinos would draw as many customers as having Seneca Gaming do it? A great argument could be made that NYS would be much worse - inefficiency, bureaucracy, political correctness, patronage, on and on. So even with percent of revenues going to the govt being higher that way, it'd be a larger slice of a smaller pie. The 25% of slot revenues going to the govt sounds like a fair amount. That's probably around a third of total profits or something like that, if profits are 50% of total casino revenue.

You seemed to switch arguments in mid-comment, going from favoring legal privatized casinos with 25% revenue to the govt, over to favoring socialized gambling as Ontario does. Seems inconsistent, but then at the end you're back to favoring legalized private casino ownership in the long term, so we end up agreeing on that. Until you said this:

I've grown enough to look at the long run and return on benefits.

You're more than entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't make you more grown than other people who think something different than you. Off the high horse, please.

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MJ - Sorry if I misinterpreted your view favoring fully legalized casinos.

Let any developer develop anything they want in exchange for %25 of slot revenue.

I agree that'd be much better, so hopefully it happens some day. Past efforts to change the state constitution for allowing that have been blocked in the Assembly. So that leaves 3 possibilities meanwhile - not allowing casinos, opening state-run casinos, or what they did with tribal casinos.

Look at NF Ontario and look at NF USA. See how much is happening on the other side? See the spin off? I do. See it on our side? Wonder why? Casinos are gov't owned up there.

I disagree with what you say that the difference in spinoff on the NF Ontario side vs. NF NY side is due to govt casino ownership. For one thing, as far as I know the NF Ontario side was much more thriving than NY side long before casinos on either side. So there's much more to it. Also, who's to say having NY state own and operate casinos would draw as many customers as having Seneca Gaming do it? A great argument could be made that NYS would be much worse - inefficiency, bureaucracy, political correctness, patronage, on and on. So even with percent of revenues going to the govt being higher that way, it'd be a larger slice of a smaller pie. The 25% of slot revenues going to the govt sounds like a fair amount. That's probably around a third of total profits or something like that, if profits are 50% of total casino revenue.

You seemed to switch arguments in mid-comment, going from favoring legal privatized casinos with 25% revenue to the govt, over to favoring socialized gambling as Ontario does. Seems inconsistent, but then at the end you're back to favoring legalized private casino ownership in the long term, so we end up agreeing on that. Until you said this:

I've grown enough to look at the long run and return on benefits.

You're more than entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't make you more grown than other people who think something different than you. Off the high horse, please.

the ontario side of the falls is apples to oranges to buddy, they can actually see the falls while the american side you can't see anything, before casinos the ontario side was always more developed.. the senecas are building a 'world class' golf course and it is still on the state tax rolls so there is one instance of something other than gambling.. the senecas don't have to go threw red tape? i spewed coffee all over my monitor reading that bs.. it took months and months for them to acquire fulton st or do you forget? or how about the multiple law suits against this project.. they had to do full environmental reviews also.. oh yea and we raped pilleged and murdered their people for about 300 years

"it took months and months for them to acquire fulton st or do you forget" - yeah because we should just be giving our public streets out to whomever wants them. its worked so well for us in the past.

I am sure that this will get lost in the mix but..

Around seven years ago, my father and I parked (for free) a block away from this site.. Lo and behold, someone shouted out a window offering their pleasurable services (for both of us)! We didn't mind one bit.. However, like vivian just wanted to say, who's to complain (other than obstructionists) when people want to spend hundreds of millions on land no one wants..

My fiance and I may be the exception, or just what Buffalo is looking for.. We have stayed at Seneca Niagara for free stays a few times in the past years (never spending more than 50 bucks per month in gambling).. This has given us a free vacation and a "trip" to the falls (not that I need one, living on GI).. I patronize the local restaurants and then wander around wishing there was something..

I will do the same in Buffalo.. I will spend my twenty and then look to spend 30-50 for dinner.. Sure i can't afford movies, concerts, or other low choice entertainment options, but it's what i like.. I still get my theater tix, sabres tix, bills tix, etc... You don't see me complaining.. I like going to the casino (for some reason).. I like wandering around outside, if fun is around..

But let's complain about grain mills that have been rusting away for years.. These are historic landmarks on par with the Statue of Liberty and the Empire State Building... I have family coming from Scotland to see the General Mills Plants because ofthe historic nature of cheerios..

I said if you are going to give one group the deal, offer it to others. I'd much rather all profits go to the state like up in ON or like the lottery.

I knew the golf coarse would come up, but that is being made possible by the revenues from the casino. But at least it is on the tax rolls. Any Hotels etc should also be on the tax rolls. Purchasing a street is red tape? That is somewhat of a stretch. Shouldn't the city have been making sure it got the most money for the street and some insurances that the casino would be better for the city and not just the state general fund?

I guess that Clifton Hill and the vacant Maple Leaf Village Mall = more than our vacant Rainbow Mall pre-casinos. Still nothing to write home about. The transformation across the falls after the gov't owned casinos has been staggering. But to use it as an example to sell us on our Indian casino ones is false solicitation

If we are to give a sovereign nation a casino monopoly in the middle of our city, shouldn't we at least demand that the facility is integrated into the streets around it so we can make some spin off development possible? Why should we allow a typical casino fortress and then say the onus is on others to work with it for spin off development?

What other building gives the city 6 million? What other building takes in as much money and profit as the casino? And how much does that slot revenue start to become a smaller and smaller piece of the pie as other subsidized facilities are added to the site? (hotels, concert venues, etc)

I am for a casino. I am for entertainment options. But I am also for level playing field for others who are not allowed to play the casino game (hotels, restaurants, concert venues, and what ever else they decide to build) and obtaining a facility that will facilitate spin off development.

This is why so many people look at Buffalo as a backwater town. Tell anyone outside WNY you're putting an Indian casino in the heart of your downtown and see how many of them don't roll their eyes and laugh. Enjoy those "thousands of great jobs!" This just sinks Buffalo's image even further.

This one is a tough call, but looks like nothing can be done to stop it.

Should be interesting to see what happens when a developer chooses not to conform to preservationists and lawsuits. They are taking a lot of risk and initiative.

Development begets development. There will be more lofts and retail built around this location. I assume Bass Pro is hoping this project will become a success.

Who knows, we may see that long desired "critical mass" sooner than later.

hamp is right that the casino won't have much economic spin-off to other businesses. That's not its purpose.

there are scores of books written about grain elevators and other industrial artifacts that people will travel hundreds of miles to see

Aren't there also scores of books about casinos and gambling? Don't some people travel 100s of miles for casinos too?

Boz - No, this isn't a big reason people will look at it as a backwater town. It hasn't even opened yet. Just as many people would laugh and roll their eyes about many things - grain elevators for example, or celebrating internet polls, or having a canal museum, or putting murals on blighted buildings. A casino won't affect a city's image either way. Some people like casinos, grain elevators, or blight murals - and some people don't. A city can't always please everyone. It's not unusual for people to enjoy mocking other people's interests. Casinos are no different that way.

MJ - I get what you're saying but it's too late to stop the state's deal with the Senecas. The only thing that can stop it now is the federal court suit. If you guys start lobbying the legislature for a constitution change to legalize private casinos, I'll support your effort. If done right, that could easily level the playing field so the Senecas won't have a special deal.

The casino is designed to draw money out of the area. The Senecas' business plan acknowledged that most of the business at the casino would be locals. So that means that, of all the predominately local money spent at the casino, 75% will go to the Senecas, 18% to the state, and 7% to the city. 93% of our money goes somewhere else.

No, Atwater, this isn't just a question of relativity. People outside the WNY coccoon look at this as a singularly bad decision, and beyond the casino complex itself it represents a conscious decision for Buffalo to label itself a "casino town." It's not just about one building, it changes our identity. Nobody says, "Buffalo's a backwater town because they celebrate internet polls." But putting an Indian casino right next to a housing project really looks awful.

Our sinking population numbers speak for themselves, and offering a bunch of jobs at blackjack tables isn't going to make people want to stay or come.

Colin - How does that differ from going to a restaurant? I'll tell you how. When you eat out, 100% goes to the restaurant. That's how! (oh I forgot, you have to pay a sales tax on top of that 100%).

ruby --

There are plenty of differences. One is that if I go to a local restaurant, in theory 100% of the profits will stay local, whereas only 7% of casino profits will stay local. Another is that going to a restaurant supports a tax-paying business, while going to the casino supports a tax-free business. Still another difference is that going to a restaurant supports a small business, while going to the casino supports the kind of silver bullet mega-project thinking which has hurt Buffalo for decades.

CRANES! Did anyone send these photos to Ralph Wilson :]

Nobody ever said the Casino will save Buffalo or is a siver bullet. It's only a piece of the puzzle to make downtown a Happening Place Again. It'll have more than slots and tables, But restaurants, a spa and more. And for the rumors of a indian run gas station, are you serious? Do you see and of those around any of the Niagara Falls casinos (boths sides of the border)??, thought so.

All -

Whether you like it or hate it, pro/against the casino, we can all agree on one thing: the city must benefit from this. Since the project will happen in either case, I think we should try to find ways to create more business and spin off more development. Instead of arguing how unfair it is that the Seneca Indians don't have to follow the rules, let's try to think of ways to prosper.

1. Implementing public transportation is a must. Being able to put light rail from HSBC here would create a one-stop shop for people looking to go out after a Sabres/Bandits game to someplace other than Chippewa. The area will have to be improved with increased foot traffic so entrepreneurs should take advantage of this.

2. Marketing. If you are in the business doing marketing advertisement, here is a great promo and attraction for the city. With development happening in the Basin/Inner Harbor area, keeping people in the lower Buffalo region should be easy. Outsource your skills to the Seneca Nation for flyers, brochures, websites, etc.

3. Construction - For those that can handle physical labor, here is a golden opportunity. Repairs to roads, houses, properties, new businesses, parking lots/ramps all need those willing to work. No further explanation is necessary.

4. Security/Protection Companies - Casinos tend to lead to higher security and any company in the business should look into this.

5. Hospitality Industries - Restaurants, bars, smaller motels, all could have a heyday here. Give tourist/customers an alternative to the buffet/casino food and have them spend their winnings here. Hopefully the same model that works in Niagara Falls, CA will work here whereby business creates business. New businesses feed off of the casinos' draw and create other businesses, which draw even more. By creating more business along the light rail to the casino it will keep it from being isolated and provide competition, which is ALWAYS a good thing.

There are many more opportunities for those that have the will and ambition. Let's use these as a springboard to starting some Buffalo owned companies before the Tony Romas, Chinese Buffets, and Dollar stores make their way over.

Some of you people are just plain retarded. No body comes to your city because you don't have anything and then you bitch about any sort of development that takes place.

WAAA - and BOOO frickin hooo about the history swept under the rug? My God people you can;t save everything. You people sound like my old uncle who won't replace his broken 40 year old dishwasher because his mother(my grandmother) put that in and he is afraid of change.

Move into the 21st century people - you have Toronto knocking down the door to take the Bills....WHY? Because they choose to grow and change and be vibrant..........

You preservationalists make me ill.

I'm sure the "preservationalists" make the residents of the Webb lofts and occupants of the Guaranty Building sick as well, probably the developers making money off those properties as well.

I'm with Satish Mohan for bringing back manufacturing jobs to this community instead of these sham casino service jobs.

Boz - Yes some people do say that. Me for one. Seriously, it's not a big deal but what better definition of backwater can there be than that? I can't think of any.

Nobody says, "Buffalo's a backwater town because they celebrate internet polls."

I also think you're going way to far with the 'casino town' thing.

beyond the casino complex itself it represents a conscious decision for Buffalo to label itself a "casino town." It's not just about one building, it changes our identity.

Detroit has 3 big separate casinos. Is it known as a casino town, or did it 'label itself' that? No. Is its identity defined by that? No. Most people think of it as a declining Rust Belt city, and also for its remaining auto industry, it's former Motown thing, high crime, sports, etc. Its three big casinos are a minor claim to fame or shame, depending on one's view.

Similarly, Buffalo won't be thought of primarily for having a casino. By far what most people think of is snow and cold. After that, other things a lot of people might think of would be Rust Belt decline, chicken wings, and the Bills. Maybe Niagara Falls too. Other than those, there's a bunch of things some but fewer people would associate with Buffalo, depending on their interests. Some might think architecture, or UB, or the Sabres, Rick James, Tim Russert, grain elevators, etc. The casino will be one of those - not a major awareness factor, pro or con. If that's your concern, relax. And for those who do think of the casino when they think Buffalo, some will look down on it (as you say everyone will) and some (nobody you know, but some) people will view it as something fun to do here.

Colin - the '7% of profits' figure you cite might be some average for how much stays local for casinos in general, but it sounds wrong for this casino. Seneca Gaming Corp owners (Seneca Nation) have a significant presence in WNY. Their headquarters executives and staff are in WNY too.

The percent of profits staying near here, if that matters to anyone, is probably much higher than 7%. It's also probably higher than what percent of profits stay around here when people spend their disposable income with some other companies I don't see you complaining about - Labatt (owned by a European co), Regal Movie Theaters (most ticket money goes to big evil movie studios), Spot Coffee (foreign-owned), Blockbuster Video, etc.

Those are all owned by out of town companies, so except for any employee profit sharing, 100% of profits from those go elsewhere. You agree much more percent of Seneca profits will stay here than profits of those businesses, right?

good point bring up the executive headquarters, and the fact that the seneca nation is a local 'corporation' the larger they become the more people they will employ the larger their 'headquarters' gets, no one can possible be 100% for this project but it just seems like at this point it is better than nothing, especially in an area that could use another destination and some 'green space'/investment in infrastructure .

Atwater --

You're right, more casino profit will stay in the area as compared to profits from the sorts of outside-based corporations you cite. That seems less like an argument in favor of the casino, and more like an argument in favor of supportig locally-owned businesses, however. And those non-local businesses presumably pay taxes, don't require ceding part of the city to another nation, are accountible to our laws, and don't involve the same kind of potential for a negative social impact.

Reflip --

I'd hope that the Senecas would use their 75% to improve conditions for their citizens. That would be great for them, but not great for Buffalo, as it would essentially mean redistributing wealth from the city to the reservation. It might be a different story if the casino would be based on bringing outside money into the area, in which case everybody would win, but I don't see that happening, and neither did the Senecas.

I don't think ts backers have ever called the casino a "silver bullet," but that's plainly the way people have been thinking about it. It hasn't been sold to the public as "just another building downtown that offers people something to do." Te idea has been not that it'll be just another amenity, but that it will spur all sorts of growth and new activity. Buffalo has had plenty of big projects with similar claims, and not many of them have panned out. We'll see, but history says we should be wary.

While the casino goes up, Benderson claims in today Buffalo News that restaurants/retail shops will be open in the Inner Harbor(Canalside) by 2010. It is also stated that a formal design for Canalside will be released this summer. One last note from the article...it makes it sound like Bass Pro is a done deal, but has a binding agreement with them been signed?

Call me skeptical, but am I the only one who doesn't see anything happening that quickly?

Boz...The casino is in the heart of downtown? Seriously? Last time I looked the casino site was a vacant piece of property that is bordering the neighborhood projects on the outskirts of downtown. In addition, this site has been in the same state for as long as I can remember.

Stop making it seem like the casino is being plopped down right in Niagara Square. I swear this site is overrun by people who should have majored in drama.

The Senacas are private developers, putting up a 333 million dollar property up on a piece of property that nobody else has looked at in decades. What is the problem here? Oh, I guess the jobs they will be offering are an issue. When you can show me even one fortune 500 company looking at Buffalo, my tune may change, untill then, accept it.

sally --

Buffalo has a long and disastrous history with silver bullet projects. This isn't a controversial point. It would be wise to look beyond the shiny new buildings and try to figure out the real impact. If you think that we can "build a beter future" on gambling and publicly-subsidized sporting goods stores, I admire your audacity.

martin --

The problem is that property will separate local people fro their paychecks and send them out of the area, while paying no taxes, undercutting tax-paying businesses and exacerbating the addiction of some vulnerable people. Or, to put it another way -- Atlantic City, Detroit, Niagara Falls NY . . .

sally --

1. A payment isn't a tax. Everything in the casino will be 8% cheaper than it would otherwise be elsewhere. That will hurt local businesses.

2. The Senecas are a sovereign nation. In geographic terms, they might be located in WNY, but in political and economic terms they're their own entity.

3. If I remember correctly, the casino is actually going to be run by a Native American gaming corporation based out of state -- details would be appreciated.

4. As you say, its unlikely that the state will do anything positive w/casino money. So why should we be happy about a casino that will send 18% of the profits -- our money -- to Albany?