Sounds good to me, if the new development is better looking than the KFC building, I'll support it.

Done right, I would be ok with KFC (even though I know we could do better).

However, this KFC did not do things right, or even well.

I have no issue with KFC. This KFC however is one of the most poorly run that i've ever seen. Poor quality, poor service, poor upkeep of the property. They deserve to close, they deserve for us not to be sad about it.

The bad news for those of us that would like to see an alternate use here is this.....KFC has a lease with renewal options....they have complete control over this property for the foreseable future. So, when a buyer is found, they will be stuck with KFC, vacant or not.

A new buyer....will have to strike a deal to get KFC to rip up there lease. Which could cost the owner of the property some money. Very common real estate deal in this type of situation. This situation is FAR from over.

I don't think that this business with its sewage and grease covered exterior and grimy interior is considered a benefit to the strip. If someone wants to redo it and make it nice sure. But the loss of a business that caters itself to a lower demographic would be considered a positive sign. It would be like watching a Rent-A-Center or a check cashing store close. I see the lose of KFC here as a sign that the demographic of the community around it is changing to the point where such a low quality establishment can continue to make money.

Not trying to be negative in my previous post. Just adding some facts about this KFC.

If they re opened and made improvements in service, quality, cleanliness....i wouldn't mind.

Although something new here (chain or not) would be exciting!

How about because they literally have sh!t leaking out onto the sidewalk?

Buffalopundit, have you eaten there? I've been to the one in West Seneca....i'd go there again. I've tried this one on elmwood once.....made me sick. Place is dirty...inside and out. Service was horrible.

This franchisee doesn't not have money issues, he's wealthier then all of us combined.......he has just refused to reinvest in this business.

Pundit, I agree with you up to a point but are you kidding? You feel bad for a business owner that can't get it together and keep their operation running and up to code? Boo hoo.

Pundit, I understand that your point here is to kind of paint BRO and Newell as promoting a hypocritical elitist community that wants everything done their way or its not good enough. I know you enjoy proving that BRO is the site where the city is pitted in a battle with the suburbs (and that of course bp.com is a much more wholistic regional site). And that, as a lawyer, you're just looking to get BRO to contradict itself when it comes to business promotion in the city, and prove its own ineptitude.

However, you obviously are not aware of the issues with KFC. This has been a problem business and property for years.... they dump waste out the kitchen door, which drains down the parking lot and into bryant st, they don't secure their dumpsters, the parking lot is consistently filled with garbage, they don't keep their waste bin closed, they attract rodents to the neighborhood and it just constantly stinks there. This is all prior to their most recent waste explosion onto the sidewalk and street. The Elmwood Village Association, the board of health, and neighbors of this business have been dealing with this particular KFC for YEARS. This is not the first time they have been shut down.

At what point do you have to realize that a particular business will never fully address the problems it creates and will always be a constant detriment to the community??? That point has arrived with this KFC and its time to explore options for finding a better and higher use for this property. Isn't that how cities should develop, after all?

So you guys can complain about crap or chicken parts in the street, but that's why it's shut down, no? I never said it should not have been shut down. Instead of closing, I'd be happier if it could come up with the resources to make necessary repairs so that it can offer its food safely to its clientele.

Repairs to infrastructure were only part of the picture. They would have also needed to repair their ownership, management, and staff, and since this was - as you say - locally owned, there's really no way to force someone to make those changes, short of shutting it down with health violations. This isn't a case of a struggling business owner who couldn't get enough money together to do things as they wanted to. This was, and I think the observations of others bear me out here - a consistently (and consciously) negligent management whose actions reflected a decision to run as-is for as long as possible heath codes be-damned. There's no correcting for that, other than to say: you (local or not) should not run this business.

The city has done that. but in the meantime, the owners have made a decision that invalidates their permits and a buyer willing to pay more for the property has emerged.

There's no liberal-elite slant to that story. That's codes and the real estate market.

That's GREAT NEWS!! ANOTHER BUISNESS CLOSED!!! 20 SOME ODD EMPLOYEES ARE OUT OF WORK!!! Are you kidding me. Are you really that self-centered? There is more to an economy then the beautification of the streets. This is not GREAT news, people lost their jobs, and another buisness on Elmwood has failed (Burger King) Quit painting this rosey picture that Elmwood is a thriving commercial district, if that was the case, these two national corporations would not have closed.

That KFC is rat breeding ground central in Buffalo.

Over the years that KFC Elmwood/Bryant has operated like a third world business.

The employees leave the tops of the dumpster and grease disposal dumpster open often and frequently. The rats do jump in and out of these containers.

The parking lots are constantly coated in cooking grease,

I wouldn't eat there because their food is full of fat and the outside was unsanitary and dirty constantly.

It took sewage flowing out side into the sewers to get some action. It got so bad it was like a business operating in a slum in Somalia.

Pundit,

I can't tell if you're serious or just trying to pick a fight with BRO readers. Criticisms by BRO (at least in this post and the linked post) toward this particular KFC have centered on how that location has conducted its business. I made a purchase there last summer and would not do so again unless there were outwardly visable signs of change. Based on my experiences and those shared by others on other threads about this particular KFC, I don't feel particularly bad for the franchise owner or the people who worked there.

You've imputed bias by BRO toward the cuisine and architectural design that is not present in either this post or the linked post. You are sympathetic to the owner and workers at KFC yet your calls to abolish Erie County would undoubtedly result in loss of more than minimum wage jobs.

I think your positions are inconsistent.

BR

That KFC is rat breeding ground central in Buffalo.

Over the years that KFC Elmwood/Bryant has operated like a third world business.

The employees leave the tops of the dumpster and grease disposal dumpster open often and frequently. The rats do jump in and out of these containers.

The parking lots are constantly coated in cooking grease.

I wouldn't eat there because their food is full of fat and the outside was unsanitary and dirty constantly.

It took sewage flowing out side into the sewers to get some action. It got so bad it was like a business operating in a slum in Somalia.

Scooter - It would actually be possible for a new owner to try to get KFC to sublease the property, or depending on the lease terms, the new owner could up the rent to the point where the franchisee would want to sublease. But I haven't seen the lease, so I'm just talking generalities. I have wondered for years why this place was never kept in better shape being in such a good location - corner, good footp traffic, hospital next door. If they can't pull it together, then I'm willing to bet the franchisee will want to get out, or the new owner will get someone else in there. Hopefully not a parking lot....

I actually meant to say 'lower income demographic'

That KFC is rat breeding ground central in Buffalo.

Over the years that KFC Elmwood/Bryant has operated like a third world business.

The employees leave the tops of the dumpster and grease disposal dumpster open often and frequently. The rats do jump in and out of these containers.

The parking lots are constantly coated in cooking grease.

I wouldn't eat there because their food is full of fat and the outside was unsanitary and dirty constantly.

It took sewage flowing out side into the sewers to get some action. It got so bad it was like a business operating in a slum in Somalia.

That KFC is rat breeding ground central in Buffalo.

Over the years that KFC Elmwood/Bryant has operated like a third world business.

The employees leave the tops of the dumpster and grease disposal dumpster open often and frequently. The rats do jump in and out of these containers.

The parking lots are constantly coated in cooking grease,

I wouldn't eat there because their food is full of fat and the outside was unsanitary and dirty constantly.

It took sewage flowing out side into the sewers to get some action. It got so bad it was like a business operating in a slum in Somalia.

This place may be gross, but so is the elitism of its critics. No matter how much people want this to be about heath code violations, the code words -- "low class," "lower demographic," "check cashing place," etc. -- tell the tale.

don't even start with the fact that poeple will be losing their jobs.....Buffalo has a surplus of low end, no future crappy jobs that these former KFC employees can get.....for the good of everyone, this place should be closed...period

I hope the owner feels some shame. It has been too long and time for a "steamclean" are long past.

For 90% of the posters it's a health issue, not class war.

Demanding Sodexho to close with giving them an opportunity to correct violations would be stupid. Why would anyone suggest they immediately close?

Colonel Sanders would have shut down this place a long time ago.

Pundit - this is not about a business that was caught in violation. This has been going on for YEARS. YEARS!!! They have been shut down before. They have temporarily resolved issues before. HOWEVER, there has been ZERO effort on the parts of the owners of this location to maintain good business practices. This isn't about the business not being able to afford to do so!

It does not cost money to keep your dumpster pen locked.

It does not cost money to keep the lids closed on your dumpster.

It does not cost money to keep the grease bin securely closed.

It does not cost money to ask an employee to spend 5 minutes every other day to pick up garbage littered about the parking lot (garbage from your business).

It does not cost money to NOT dump kitchen waste out the back door (which proceeds to run down the slope in the parking lot and into Bryant Street, daily)

It does not cost money to make sure that food gets put away in the cooler, at appropriate temperatures (which is one reason they were shut down previously)

These things are in addition to the serious waste systems problems they have encountered, a building that does indeed require a power washing.

KFC is NOT a business that is just hard on its luck. Its not some owner thats struggling to make it. This is about a business that absolutely refuses to properly manage their property, and poses SIGNIFICANT health and safety issues to its customers and the surrounding neighborhood. THIS BUSINESS SHOULD NOT BE OPEN. I don't know the whole story with Sodexho, but as far as I know, they have not been a problem in the past. They have not been a repeat offender.

Is there any reason to believe, with Sodexho, that once they correct their violations, they will not maintain those corrections????? KFC has proven, time and again, that they do not have an interest in permanently resolving problems. This is a great case of where the board of health's inspections process has greatly succeeded.

You're completely missing the point with this establishment.

Pundit, you're off your rocker today. I'm not sure why this has become a hobbyhorse of yours, but you're now resorting to apples and oranges, and most of us see right through it.

BuffaloPundit,

So what?

I don't see why anybody has to apologize for wanting to elevate the socio-economic level of his or her community.

Pundit, give it up. take the gloves off.

Did anyone here say that Sodexho should not correct their safety issues???? Anyone???

Is anyone arguing that KFC should be closed just because the building is dirty???? Anyone???

I guess we should ignore the idea that KFC is a repeat offender. That they are a consistent problem over a period of many years. I guess we should disregard that they attract rats to the neighborhood. I guess it doesn't matter that NO ONE was surprised when sewage waste exploded onto the sidewalk last month. You're right, there is no reason anyone should want this place closed, and the property bought and put to a higher use.

Thank you, BuffaloPundit, for making sure to bring light to and sensationalizing the most minor details of this entire subject, while ignoring what everyone else is talking about. Thats probably why we stay on BRO and don't corrupt your random daily comment site.

1. Closing the KFC doesn't "elevate the socio-economic level" of the community. Removing poor people (or the places they frequent) from sight doesn't change the makeup of the community. It only hurts one part of it so that another part of it doesn't have to look at them.

2. For all the talk about how this was a rundown dump, it was also one of the most successful places on Elmwood. While BRO writes stories practically celebration the constant churn of small boutique stores opening, closing and relocating up and down the street, this restaurant has been doing steady business over the years, employing people and paying taxes.

3. Despite people's stated lack of concern for KFC workers losing their "no future crappy jobs," it's still a problem. Real life people will be harmed by this. It's in all of our interest for young and/or poor people to have access to this sort of honest work.

and that's why the owner should feel shame.

Colin,

1. I would probably agree.

2. How in the world do you know that this is one of the most successful businesses on Elmwood? You did read that its the owner thats choosing to remain closed.... if it was such a goldmine, would they really do this?

3. There is the potential of a new developer about the buy the project and build to a higher use. That will probably actually lead to a significant increase in employment, and level of pay from any retail establishment that will locate there and construction jobs.

Townline --

Your comment about "higher use" betrays your argument about health code violations. It suggests that, even if this KFC was perfectly up to code, you would still want something "higher" there. The problem that people have is with a fast food place that appeals primarily to poor and working people. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if KFC was replaced by a Jamba Juice or Panera, people here would have no trouble thinking of it as a "higher use," despite the fat that the actual use -- quick service food -- would remain the same. Anyone who can't see the class issues behind everyone's glee at the failure of this business is being willfully blind.

Pundit,

What are we ignoring???? KFC did repair their recent waste issues, and its KFC's choice to remain closed. People have been trying to work with this establishment for YEARS to no avail. Until this point, all of those efforts have been to get KFC to remedy their problems, never to close. But the time has finally come, and its KFC who has decided that its not worth the battle anymore. As evidenced by their own decision to close, apparently, they feel its the best course of action as well. I'm still not understanding what we don't get. Please, enlighten, Pundit?

TL --

My success claim is based only on observed longevity. I don't have access to anyone's books, but I know which places have been around for a while, and I've seen that plenty of places have come and gone while the KFC stayed.

BIG FREAKING DEAL PEOPLE WOULD PREFER SOMETHING OTHER THEN A KFC. it's not class warfare but if you want to make it that go right ahead. have fun feeling righteous.

I apologize. To clarify, when I said "higher use," it was intended that this meant actual land and building use. Multiple story, mixed use, quality design.

I would have NO PROBLEM with seeing a new KFC located on the first floor of a new, multi-story building at this corner, as long as its under good ownership and management.

I don't have a problem with KFC in general, I don't have a problem with nat'l chains. Would I prefer a Panera over KFC? Sure! Why? Because I like Panera. But that has nothing to do with my wants for the development of this site. If Panera operated this location the same as KFC does, I guarantee everyone would have the same reactions.

good lord. Hard to believe I'm reading this...

This is excellent news! Now all they need to do is shut down that Sunoco/A-Plus, and I'm sure the number of panhandling bums on this corner would be reduced even more. Or maybe they could just stop selling 40s and cigarettes. Uh oh, I'm being elitist. Oh well.

Yeah, I agree that the KFC was a liability to the Elmwood Village area.

Still, I get the impression that if this were "Elmwood Fried Chicken", "Buffalo Fried Chicken", or a Mighty Taco, many would be singing a much different tune; that the same sanitary issues and cluientele would make it an "real, authentic Buffalo institution that will be sorely missed."

Anyone here old enough to remember the old Panos? That place was pretty nasty too, yet when it relocated to a new building further north on Elmwood, the equivalent of the hipster crowd at the time were quite upset about it. "The old Panos had character!" "Without that dirt and 20 year old frying oil, the food won't taste as good!" "I'll never go to the new Panos!"

frederico --

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Of course I'm opposed to anyone working in bad conditions. I have the track record (and arrest record) to prove it.

magnum --

Poor people who eat at KFC are making their own decisions, as is their right.

townline --

Thanks for clarifying what you meant by higher use. And I agree, a better building would be great. It seems pretty unlikely, though, that a better building at this location would end up serving the same sorts of people that the KFC serves now. The effect would still be to remove an option popular with poorer people, and replace it with one that is popular with richer folks. The fact that everyone is so gung-ho about that prospect, and is so blind to its class implications, is troubling to me. But maybe I'm unusual.

KFC's and other fast food chains locate on the first floor of extremely expensive buildings all the time in most cities. Why would that not happen here?

TL --

Yeah, I've seen those in other cities, but I haven't in Buffalo. Why? Probably has everything to do with real estate and land prices. But moreover, I imagine a "higher use" building on this site would come under all sort of pressure as to what sorts of tenants were acceptable. Nothing "low class" that attracts the "wrong demographic." And that pressure would be guided by all sorts of prejudices which I think are ugly.

bc71 --

Sure, the market will ultimately decide what ends up here (or anywhere). But that wasn't the conversation that happened in this thread. Instead, we heard a lot of coded talk about how KFC is bad because it attracts the wrong sorts of people. And that kind of talk just makes my skin crawl. I can't help it -- that's how I'm wired.

The main topic wasn't at all about KFC attracting the wrong type of people. There may have been one or two people who mentioned it, but the vast majority of the comments were about the business itself. This is a bad business with bad management. Thats what this is about. People are sick of the sewage, smell, rats, uncleanliness, open dumpsters, dirty lot, etc.... not about the people who frequent the place.

I don't think that is where it intended to go. I saw it more as since the demographic around KFC has changed so to will the businesses that cater to them. The closing on this place therefore is like watching an era on Elmwood come to a close. Is that bad? Good? I dunno probably depends on which side of the fence you grew up on. I would think it is good for the city. It is important that we are least have one prosperous street in the city. Something to say hey.. the whole city isn't like that news report you watch every night. If that means a constant eyesore of a restaurant closes. So be it.

I prefer to be around people who are richer than me, and are also more intelligent than I am, better educated, better dressed, funnier, more spiritually uplifting, and have better smelling breath than I do.

Does that make me an elitist?

TL --

Sure, some people made arguments about health and cleanliness issues, and who could disagree with their concerns? Not me. But others made what I think are ugly arguments about the class of people that frequent the place, and I responded to them. No biggie.

I used to live right around the corner on Hodge, and can attest that KFC was a total disaster. They didn't care about keeping anything clean, there was always mysterious brown "juice" all over the sidewalks and parking lot. I am glad that a business that frankly didn't care about itself is going to close. Maybe someone who cares about the area will be able to do a better job at keeping a business open in that location.

This is Capitalist America, and if you operate a business that spews sewage into the streets, have rats living in your business, don't even attempt to keep your property clean, and people stop going ... you should be shut down. Commentors need to stop wining, that place was gross, and I will feel better walking by there now.

iab --

Thanks for the compliment, but I don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the brave people who built the movement that led to things like "forced busing," aka school integration. Your bitterness and stupidity suggest that you do deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the scum who opposed them, however.

What a shame, I'm going to miss their three piece "salmonella chicken value meal". But I heard Tim Hortons is considering that location. That wouldn't be so bad.