Gaustad, actually i already complained about it. I can not comment on any casino article without complaining about the architecture. It is just too bad it sucks, that's all. Missed opportunity to make an urban district with the casino at the focal point, instead we get a giant fast food joint.
Seems they are ahead of schedule. They already started pounding in the steel support beams (looks like the whole length of the south park block is done) and the excavating is happening at the other end of the property,
Maybe they should have put the casino here! ... http://www.buffalorising.com/story/pathetic_or_potential
"Instead we are stuck with a 1950's-tax-to-death/put your best friend in office/support the unions government." Great line MJ Worthington. This line is more "Buffalo" than a chicken wing. I also agree with the do it classy argument--that we could stomach for commerce etc.
Does anybody know what NFTA does and why they own so much city land by the waterfront? (been out of Buffalo for awhile) This is light of government entities getting in the way. That said, I know nothing about its purpose or function and would like to learn.
Sally, where have you been all my life!? I like your style.
Nice to see people on this site starting to make sense and demanding change.....instead of the same old dreamers that don't know anything about anything.
Is there an exit strategy for this "arrangement" with the Seneca family? We should ask Don Seneca himself to enlighten us on his daughters wedding day...
If we are going to have a crusade against "devices of the Devil" why stop at Casinos? I guarantee that more people have been injured (physically, emotionally, financially) as a result of the bars on Chippewa than the Seneca Casino in Niagara Falls. Ask any judge, cop or mental health professional.
How many in the past year have been killed or injured by drunk drivers in WNY? How many new members have joined AA in the past year? Alcoholism is a greater threat to anyone reading this post than gambling - period! Yet I don't know of any Elmwood Village based movement to close Coles, Coulter Bay or padlock the entire stretch of Chippewa.
Again, I find it entertaining that no one person has made a compelling case against the decent paying *employment* opportunities that are about to be created. If you dislike gambling (as do I), then stay home. Its all about entertainment. To each their own.
If you are going to be fair, at least attempt to be consistent.
The casino is to blame for NF losing population over the last 50 yrs. Its not even a city anymore...more like a town... Its the casino's fault for no development in NF for 50 yrs. Its the casinos fault for? well its a good scape goat....sound familiar? go SENECAS...BUILD...BUILD...BUILD...
I think transforming part of the former wharf/ cobblestone district back into a mini redlight district... like it was during Buffalo's industrial heyday of the late 19th century, would not only pay homage to Buffalo's history but would also give a real shot in the arm to this neighborhood. I'm serious. The buildings are already there... and with the casino going up this is a no brainer. People coming in from out of town need more entertainment choices other than just gambling and a hockey game....
SOBRF, "At this point we can just hope that the Seneca's are good neighbors. "
you guys are killing me!
no literally, i almost choked to death on my coffee! any good Seneca's out there wanna help me clean off my monitor and key board???
When I think about my parents and the hard working people wasting their hard earned money at a casino its makes me sick to my stomach--that said, lets at least get some restaurants and enterprise going down there to regenerate the economy--I am bit apprehensive that this is our way that we do it. As a hub, maybe it be a catalyst to inspire other developers.
chocolate shake: we need jobs so that we can keep the history museums--I agree with the spirit of your comment, though. hell, maybe we'll get another tax refund from the government and I'll see you over there. Does anyone else find it ironic that both local and national government are training the public to be irresponsible with its money? If you want to know the truth, follow the money.
NewBuffalo,
repeating old arguments and jingoistic spin, does not make a bad idea any better. 'just one puzzle piece' = one big boat that wont float CASINO = fugazi
This is horrible news for the marketplace we call downtown because it goes against the theory of capitalism. A casino, by nature, makes money through gambling, a revenue source open only to them. Thus, when they serve food and drinks, they use these items as loss leaders to get people to participate in their real revenue stream.
Consider, steak. Right now, you can get a steak in many places in Buffalo. In deciding the place, you make an argument based on cost versus quality. Because for a restaurant, the higher the quality (a factor of ingredients and expertise in the chef), the higher the cost to make the meal. Since booze and food are the revenue stream of restaurants, they have to charge a price that makes them money. We consumers factor in quality and price when picking a place.
The Senecas do not. They can hire the best chef in the world, order the best ingredients and sell us a steak for $10. In fact, that's good business. Since we'll feel like we're getting a deal, we'll most likely gamble more. (This $10 steak would have been $32 at E.B Greens. Way i look at it, I have $20 more to gable)
Adding a business to the marketplace that gets it's own rules is not good for the marketplace. It might be good for people, because we'll get good food and booze for cheap. But lets not pretend this is good for businesses in Buffalo.
ChocolateShake,
I understand the 'slippery slope' idea youre trying to explain, and I for one enjoy gambling once in a while. But comparing gambling to drinking is like apples to oranges. They're both fruit, but spending twenty bucks at the bar to get a buzz (or drunk, if you like) is guaranteed. Whereas the point of gambling - winning money - is not guaranteed. That's why it's called gambling. It's a different beast. No one likes to lose money at a casino, but most people who go there do. It's not legit entertainment to me.
people who frequent casinos, may or may not be interested in history museums. i don't think that their visitor numbers will be linked much. especially considering that this casino is not going to get much marking out side of the region.
this casino is designed to be an island of its own. people will not be coming and going from it much. its effects on downtown or the city in general will be minimal. it will be a wash.
it will be good for the construction industry though, so why not.
Lets all be honest with ourselves. This is not Las Vegas, do you really think people outside of this region are going to "flock" to the casino. NO. Just look at the casino in Niagara Falls, they said it would spur future development. Haven't seen any yet and a hotel built by the same people does not count. I am talking about development outside of the Seneca nation. People keep acting like these 3,000 jobs are these great high paying jobs. Like 3,000 jobs at a casino are equivalent to 3,000 jobs in a corporation. If anybody goes to this casino, they're not going to go experience the nightlife of Buffalo. WHY DO YOU THINK they are building restaurants, bars, shops (basically everything possible) in this casino. The people who go there will drink there, eat there, and sleep there. Is it any wonder that three of the most poorly run cities are turning to casinos as the answer. People will not come to Buffalo, Pittsburgh, and Detroit because casinos are now there. There are enough casinos spread across the country. "Oh Buffalo built a casino, lets go there now because it's not like we have a casino anywhere near us. Lets spend the same amount of money instead of any other city with a casino or Las Vegas" Not to mention we have already built two in our region and we are across the border from Canada's Las Vegas.
Plain and simple. Casinos are not the answer. The answer is New York State getting it's ass in gear. We are the fourth highest state to do business in. Until we cut spending and taxes this city will not make great strides. Building a casino won't make corporations forget about the cost of doing business here. Jobs will not come here because a casino is being built, what will that do for their bottom line? It will not bring any type of jobs here or do anything for our economy. It's great to see private investment in the city (Savarino:Cobblestone, Dulski, Statler), but sadly this type of investment is considered in minor investment in other cities.
Just take a look to all of the AWESOME development going on around the Casino in Niagara Falls! All those new restaurants in the surrounding area are just BOOMING! Of course people will pay more to stay at the Adams Mark and Hyatt and won't waste their time in the free rooms that will be offered by the Senecas. This casino will be DIFFERENT than all the other ones that have sucked economic life out of their surrounding cities!
in a few of the reservations outside of san diego and los angeles there are casinos which look almost exactly like this, except that the only things that surround them are..
1. a highway off ramp 2. a gas station, owned by the casino... 3. a pay day loan place 4. trailers and shacks, where the workers live. 5. a burger king (or other fast food place) 6. desert.
america the beautiful i guess....
I am not holding my breathe, The Casino hasn't done anything for NF it probably wont do anything for buffalo.
NewBuffalo, "The senecas show what can be done without all the red tape and lawsuits."....
Not to mention what they can do with free land, immunity to NYS law, and no city, county, state or federal taxes, you may be onto a new business model here NewBie!
And what are the names of those native american tribes that have benefited socially, educationally, and in health related matters, since they traded the last of their aboriginal integrity for neon, Keno, and poker chips?
And now its official, Tim "The Resume Builder" Wannamaker has quit his post as chief economic development of Buffalo for a cushy post in Sunny Los Angeles, Inglewood actually City of Champions where the LA LAkers played for 30 years. His new salary is doubled to $190,000 per annum. Who didnt see this coming I called this over a year ago right here on Wannamaker Ris...I mean Buffalo Rising... Peace out Tim...Peace and Hair Grease!
Where do you all think that the money is going when you spend it in the casino?
It is going to the people of the Seneca Nation, City of Buffalo and New York State. Last time I checked, the people of the Seneca Nation were a part of Western New York. Where does the money go when you buy something from Dunlop, Ford, GM, Geico, etc? Aren't they based somewhere other than WNY? Are the owners all in WNY? No, it goes to the shareholders all around the world. Sure, some of the money goes to the workers, contractors, etc, but the majority goes outside of WNY. Almost all the money from the casino is staying in Western New York and helping better a people who haven't had it so easy. The Seneca's do the same as the other companies who have locations here, pay local workers, contractors, but the money ends here in WNY and NYS. It's just taking a different route than you’re used to. I thought most of you were about buying local?
Oh, and for those of you who say that these other companies pay taxes, show me one company that is paying $7,000,000 in taxes per year to Buffalo. Good luck with your search.
Regarding Niagara Falls, the City of Niagara Falls is a political mess. The city hasn’t used the casino to their advantage. Buffalo has a much better chance to capitalize on the increase in traffic that the casino will bring. Buffalo will have two anchors for one district, Bass Pro and the Casino. These are two major reasons for people to come to Buffalo. With the proper tenant mix, plan and supporting development, the Cobblestone/Canal Side district will flourish.
Niagara Falls has the falls, the casino, one of the most recognizable names in the world, plus they already have millions of visitors each year. They have no excuse to not have a booming tourist economy. It's all about corruption and greed up there. So don't compare Buffalo to Niagara Falls.
This casino will provide about three minutes of "entertainment/enlightenment"...during its inevitable implosion. Indian casinos promise all these ammenities and "fun activities", until they fail to meet their margins. Then suddenly, the theatre goes from forty shows a year to six, and the "four star restaurant" gets replaced by a diner. And all the while, their patrons will be blaming themselves. The fact is that $333 million is a pretty tough nut to cover and all those "consultants" and "vendors" with Genovese-type backgrounds will just chew away at their profits until they cry poverty as they seek to renegotiate their compacts with the state. This hogwash is unsustainable and soon Buffalo will have yet another monument to bad ideas in prominent locations. Sorry, a positive expression is what you wear at classier establishments.
This is great - are you kiddin? Nobody ever said that the casino would be the end to all the job problems, but it definitely is a great side addition to the city. This just adds another reason why people would want to come to the city. Nobody goes to Bills games for the hotdogs, but are sure glad that they are there when they want something to eat.
The Senecas are the *only* corporation that says they will do something, and then does it. They do not have 1000 layers of crap bureaucracy to deal with, no picketing unions, no old wasps trying to impede progress. If the city could take a page out of the Seneca's playbook, or better yet, let them run the city. If the Senecas could convince the entire city was on their land, they could set their own taxes, and help bring in multiple new corporations here. Instead we are stuck with a 1950's-tax-to-death/put your best friend in office/support the unions government.
Sick....
Oh, Joshua. Your comment "that is one of my favorite Italian restaurants, bar none" was just what I needed to put me over the edge. Do you read what you write? This casino can go either way. Will Barry Snyder run for mayo?
YOU CAN ADD PARK LANE CONDOS IN THERE TOO -
Some developer somewhere will feel they are missing out
attention gaming whores and one armed bandits, (put down that crack pipe Sally, im gettin ready to illuminate)
Davvid, you give our ex-mayorial dribbler waaaay too much credit, masiello was all pawn, this is george pataki's state wide legacy.....funny how the republican governor, with the republican majority state legislature did nothing in all his years in office to change the oppressive and discouraging business climate in New York State, but they handily crammed gaming down our gullets?
'whats the harm?' WE didnt VOTE for this. aside from the huge perversion of state and federal gaming and native soveriegnty laws, simply follow the money.....shadey indonesian investors from the heart of terrorland, thieving native leaders who will continue to live large while reservations wallow in abject poverty, alchohol abuse, with substandard housing and education.
what ever the attractive influences to out-worlders, the money spent out of buffalo pockets will likely LEAVE buffalo forever. (yeah, yeah, i know about the 34.5 hr a week part time minimum wage jobs, but most of that income will be spent at dollar general, another direct cash pipeline to the orient!) the coinage dropped out of buffalo trousers and that crease in your baby daddies sofa, is money that WONT be spent in local businesses, eateries, school supplies or for home fix up. then there is the attractive and certain aspect of the gambling addicts, we will pay for those out of our already strained social services, privately and governmentally subsidized of course. the vibrant chippewa strip? yeah, it will take perhaps the biggest hit of all, our young'nz love thier games of chance and the jingle of lopsided odds.
yeah, it$ all gud!
the only benefit to this hidiousity is that it may free up the counter at wilson farms....we've all been stuck behind the amatuer bookie buying tickets for his grammaw and everyone else that lives in the back of his rusted out bonneville.
mmjazz... what's the difference between dropping 100 bucks at the casino and going to a hockey game and watch the Sabres get their arse kicked by Ottawa? Its all entertainment.
Furthermore, we should be careful with an argument that a few may not be able to control themselves at a casino. How many people waste their hard earned dollars at bars and become alcoholics? How about drunks who drive home from the bars and cause serious injury and death to innocent people? People drinking on Saturday are more of a threat to anyone reading this than some blue haired old lady plopping dollar bills into the Wheel of Fortune slot machine.
People come to Buffalo for the bars (entertainment) then why wouldn't they come to play black jack (entertainment)?
"An EXCELLENT addition to our city. This project will be a jewel in the crown. The senecas know how to pull off a project of this size. Can't wait for the addition to the skyline. MAYBE the senecas can build us a bridge to canada? no probably not, that would mean that it would ACTUALLY GET BUILT! "
"The Senecas are the *only* corporation that says they will do something, and then does it. They do not have 1000 layers of crap bureaucracy to deal with, no picketing unions, no old wasps trying to impede progress. If the city could take a page out of the Seneca's playbook, or better yet, let them run the city. If the Senecas could convince the entire city was on their land, they could set their own taxes, and help bring in multiple new corporations here. Instead we are stuck with a 1950's-tax-to-death/put your best friend in office/support the unions government. "
Yes, please look at the current indian reservations to see all the buisnesses and development their super mega awesomeness has spawned. It's easy when you are leeching off an established city giving almost nada in return.
nonono hit it on the head:
:Not to mention what they can do with free land, immunity to NYS law, and no city, county, state or federal taxes, you may be onto a new business model here NewBie!:
Offer any corporation the deal that the Seneca's got and you'd pry see the money vacuum towers popping up all over here. For this deal 50% of net profits on what ever was built on site should have been the start (not just a smaller percentage of slots). Add up all the lost bed taxes, sales taxes, etc etc and we'll come up way short. Or we should have given them the 24% apr loans to construct. If anything NF Ont. did it correct. Gov't owned with all the money coming back to the people and the area. Yes gov't may not be the best to handle the money, but its better than to give it to a sovern nation in the middle of our DT.
Even with the current crap deal we got, at least give us a casino design not based off of prison like seclusion for some hope of off shoot development. Street side restuarants, stores, etc.
It's like being around a bunch of drunk men in a strip club. Flash us your $333 million dollar breasts and we'll throw you all of our money leaving with nothing in return.
The Seneca hotel will force all of our other hotels in the downtown area to COMPETE for business. In the end, this is a "win " for Buffalo....especially if you are a fan of an updated skyline! Adam's Mark had better begin hiring architects and get some redevelopment projects of their own rolling. This hotel is a dump and in the near future, we will not be handing them our business. Brutal, but true. The Seneca hotel is about to change everything! Imagine the Adam's Mark's new owner saying to himself, "time to take Buffalo by Storm" and build a hise-rise where that hotel now takes up space. COMPETITION is healthy!
The original plan was to give the Senecas enough land to build a casino, period, and let development happen around it. Now we gave them enough for a luxury hotel, and I'm sure an entertainment venue is to follow. It's a mistake.
Studio Arena is already going down the tubes. Here's how it will happen. It's not that people will make a conscious choice to stop going to Shea's in favor of gambling. But in the years that follow the casino's opening, when that season ticket invoice comes around to the season ticket holders in Depew and Cheektowaga, people will probably just say, "You know maybe we don't have the money to go to Shea's this year." They won't specifically blame it on the casino, but that's where their money will go and Shea's will just be the next casualty of this disgusting deal the Senecas get to pay no taxes and profit from benefits that other local businesses can't compete with.
THIS PROJECT WILL BE BIG FOR OUR CITY! I can't wait,... imagine how much progress will be happening in the surround area till its opening day! 2 years of cobblestone development, then BAM! A 5 star Casino! Beautiful. Keep it moving Buffalo! We will be looking much brighter within the next 3 years. Casino, inner and outer development, Federal Building, Dulski Builing, Gates Circle Condos, and the renovated Statler! Now... More lofts and downtown living please!
Say what you want about this casino, but when you see large cranes downtown for:
1.) Waterfront condo tower
2.) Dulski building
3.) Casino
4.) Court House
5.) Hopefully Statler Tower
That is a lot of cranes for Buffalo, it will not go un noticed by outside developers.
DEVELOPMENT BEGETS DEVELOPMENT
Niagara Falls has been dysfunctional for the past 40 years. It's not as though downtown NF resembled Orchard Park and then suddenly transformed into the current condition as a result of the casino. There are more powerful forces that have molded Niagara Falls into the current disaster zone: inept/corrupt city government, some of the highest municipal tax rates in the state, organized crime, etc, etc. The Seneca Indian Casino is probably the only reason to ever venture to Niagara Falls, NY.
I am surprised no one has criticized the design on this builing yet? Is it even being built to the curb? Does it pass the Tim Tielman inspection? Where is Eric Oak?
I agree with you Sally! Once this gets built maybe Buffalo can finally take the poorest city title from Detroit once and for all!
The only problem with the casino is the revenues from it are not taxable. The profits are going to get divided up and shipped to reservation residents. Sure they will have to spend some sort of money on supplies and payroll but odds are this is still going to be a net loss in wealth for the region.
What we really need to do is provide a free shuttle bus from the Res to the city so some of those dollars we are shipping off come back to us. This is a huge project and a lot of development for the city, it should happen but the benefit of business is its ability to bring wealth to the region, or circulate the money farther and longer within the region. I don't feel either thing is going to happen in the deal that was made.
At this point we can just hope that the Seneca's are good neighbors.
Yeah Gaustad, all my out of town friends are just clamoring to come to Buffalo to see the new Indian casino. Tell anyone outside of WNY that this is our economic development plan for downtown and they just laugh. Doesn't help our already bad reputation with people looking for a promising place to relocate.
EVIL casinos!!!... We need to crush them and the jobs they provide!!!
I just don't understand why people who work at the Seneca Nation like their jobs even though they actually get paid well and have benefits. The casino workers would definitely be better off working in the Elmwood Village making minimum wage while talking about the joys of Jane Jacobs. I'm sure there are *thousands* of jobs to be found in the Elmwood Village if people just looked hard enough. Plus, who really needs health insurance or yearns to make more than 15k a year?
Its an outrage that this sacred piece of the city is being developed and turned into a casino. An outrage!! We don't need jobs - we need history museums!!
People in the City of Buffalo are the last ones to have a smug arrogant attitude. Hey reality check can you say South Buffalo, or Elmwood Village, or East Side or Black Rock or Lovejoy? Face it man except for a relatively tiny area around Delaware Park Buffalo is not exactly what anyone would call upscale - least not with a straight face.
Interesting article but why did it fail to mention that Old Country Buffet's corporate owner is in bankruptcy and has shuttered dozens of locations across the country. Also why does it use a closing timeline that includes a large period of time before the Casino was even open?
It doesn't address why 4 restaurants closed on third street BEFORE the casino opened while two have opened their SINCE the Casino has opened.
The article gives no stats but only cites a vague consensus the reason for this is that there is no verifiable objective data to support the claim the repotrer WISHES were true.
BTW the 55-60 floor hotel I was referring to is a Seneca hotel to be built on the land currently being cleared by them. The plans are still being tweaked though it is my understanding that as they currently sit the hotel will be 58 floors and apprimately 700 feet tall.
NEO-Buffalo is coming!!! Whether people chose to see it or not, the creation of jobs in buffalo will be great!!! Even if some jobs are lost locally because of the casino competition, the jobs created at the casino will be far larger than the amount of jobs lost! Look at it as something actually being done to create jobs here within the city. And believe it or not, outsiders of this region do go to the casinos at NF NY, so who is to say that outsiders wont come to a casino in Buffalo. This casino will be just a small step toward the development of "ghetto" downtown buffalo! UB has extensive plans of expanding its down town campus. That means new faculty and on campus jobs and an increase in student populations whom spend great deals of money within our community. Between the casino, bass pro, the huge UB project, and the creation of multiple condominium buildings throughout the city, Buffalo is looking very bright!
Maybe John J. Albright or Darwin D. Martin could fund the construction of a new rail from Buffalo to Niagara Falls.
Sally - I completely agree with you. Once this gets built maybe Buffalo can take the title of poorest city from Detroit once and for all!
Carl your comment shows that you are ignorant of the facts. The Seneca's have an agreement with the City to extensively promote the region outside of the area, it was part of the Fulton Street sale. So every effort will be made to draw in outsid dollars. That is why they added the 22 storey hotel tower my friend.
SBROF - NFNY would be in even worse shape than it is now were it not for the Seneca Niagara Casino and it's 3,000+ jobs with full benefits. BTW they are clearing the remaining land that they own in NFNY (Splash Park, Pizza Hut and Holiday Inn) They will be building a 55-60 floor 700+ foot hotel on the NF site. The plans will be officially unveiled within the next month.
WE give ralph wilson millions of tax payer dollars everytime he crys poverty. Has the stadium in orchard park thats only used 10 times a year helped development in orchard park? NO. The casino is nothing more than another form of entertainment it is NOT expected to spur growth. Does HSBC arena spur any growth? NO. At least the casino and hotel owners will not be able to threaten us with MOVING their team out of here every time they want more from the tax payers.
. . . paying no bed taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, providing free rooms and bars where patrons can smoke. How can any legitimate business compete with that?
An EXCELLENT addition to our city. This project will be a jewel in the crown. The senecas know how to pull off a project of this size. Can't wait for the addition to the skyline. MAYBE the senecas can build us a bridge to canada? no probably not, that would mean that it would ACTUALLY GET BUILT!
nonono:
You confuse me. What infrastructure costs can possibly eat up an estimated $7,000,000 per year? And, who are these experts that you say cannot agree to the additional infastructure costs of casinos? Are they funded buy the pro or anti casino lobbies? Do you have sources that are funded by a neutral party?
Also, do you expect any reasonable person to believe your argument that the net revenues of the casino never get to the Seneca people. The net revenues go to the Seneca Gaming Corporation which are then paid out to the Seneca Nation of Indians. That money then is used to pay for the cost of government, capital projects, etc, with the remaining being distributed to the people of the Seneca Nation as stated by Seneca law. Are you trying to tell me that the Seneca's don't show any gain from the 3 casinos and other gaming facilities they have? Are you saying that the tribal leaders are on the take as well as give money away to other corporations and lenders? A pretty big accusation you make that you should have some facts to back it up. It makes your argument look very weak.
By the way, the Seneca Gaming Corporation had to file papers with the SEC. They have auditors looking over their books. Here is the link for you: http://www.secinfo.com/d11MXs.115aw.d.htm. Transparent enough?
“Another baseless and unprovable assertion” you make nonono! I say nonono to your argument!
Yea with Bass Pro and a casino as anchors Buffalo will quickly become the white trash tourist mecca of the Northeast - all we need is a NASCAR track!
Buff11, you sound like me! It is weird to be on the other side of the coin on this one. I agree with all of your points, you do make a strong case for not having a casino.
At the end of the day, it may not be our silve bullet, but I can't see it hurting either. If the Senecas are willing to invest 333 million in Buffalo, bring their gaming offices/operations here, and give us a cut of the revenue, I just can't see how this is a bad business decision for us.
I believe the people in Buffalo will still want to eat at their favorite rest. and bars. Althought it is true that anyone coming in from out of town may not leave the hotel, if in fact Bass Pro Project ever moves forward there will be some things to do within walking distance of casino.
Who knows, someone visitng may decide to buy a ticket to studio arena or check out sheas, or go to Thurs in the square in the summer....walk down to the waterfront. etc
The city has a very good revenue sharing agreement with the Senecas. They money we receive will probably be squandered on red sheds and lime stone boat slips, but Buffalo will receive a good piece of the action.
I am not a big Casino person, but a project of this size can not be passed up by a city like Buffalo.
Moreover, it is not fair to compare this to Niagara Falls, which was a convention center turned casino. Niagara Falls does not have a good foundation to work off of like Buffalo. The only thing there is the Casino; there was nothing there before.
Buffalo's casino is being built from the ground up with a 5 star hotel, concert venue, and park in an area which is now a Ghetto. A much nicer Casino than Niagara Falls.
Just build the dam thing and profit from it.
The Buffalo Seneca Creek Casino should (IF BUFFALO AND BUFFALONIANS ARE SMART) create a big impetus for a light rail connection to both Niagara Falls and the Buffalo Niagara International Airport!
Failure to connect Niagara Falls and the Buffalo Airport are essentially symptomatic of Buffalos stodgy, backward, incompetent and disloyal leadership that are content to skim off the largess of the city but recacitrant to actually do their jobs investing in the city's future!
OK, all things being equal, which they most certainly are not, modern architecture has shorter and shorter life expectancy in our modern age, prime example the Dulski building, and the old asbestos filled moldy Aud. Gaming mega malls have never existed with this proliferation in our history, and in this sense are utterly untested, and an ultimately unpredictable socio-economic experiment.
If some unforeseen, but entirely possible future culmination of unpredictable events makes this casino no longer viable in 20 or 30 years, who will be saddled with the huge cost of demolition? Can the Seneca's abandon it? Can we count on them to 'do the right thing'? Has this very possible eventuality even been taken into consideration or provided for? Doesn't this newly invented 'sovereignty' shield the Seneca's from municipal governance for perpetuity? I dont know one way or the other, but there are more unanswered questions than there are poker chips in this venture.
Many reasonably feel that this casino will give new meaning to the word craps! Time will tell.
CKBuffalo "Where do you all think that the money is going when you spend it in the casino? It is going to the people of the Seneca Nation, City of Buffalo and New York State."
Utterly baseless. Whether or not the revenue from this casino will in fact realize any net gain for the city and county is anyone's guess. Yes, anyone's guess, because no experts can agree on whether the cost to our common infrastructure will eat up by our share of the proceeds.
Another baseless and unprovable assertion you erroneously make is that money goes directly to the 'Seneca people'. It in fact goes to a complex corporate entity, financial backers, and is shielded by a devious compact by Seneca tribal leadership that does not allow for the individual Seneca tribe members to obtain any accounting or auditing of the proceeds or spending by tribal leaders. Remember how our thruway and peace bridge were never actually 'paid for' despite multi millions of dollars in toll revenues? The peace bridge authority has perpetuated itself long past its intended short term existence, through questionable governance and perpetual reinvestment.
NewBuffalo "COMPETITION is healthy! "... This deal provides for as much competition as the Catholic Church enjoys in Vatican City.
Please pass the pipe you guys are all smoking. It must be filled with some serious s#*t !
A 333 million dollar hotel project/casino can only bring revenue and people here. I was very much opposed to the 100 mill project. I don't think people understand the magnitude of this project. It will definitely bring more visitors to Buffalo and assist in the cobbelstone development.
This project will add more value than the Erie Canal or Naval Musuem; what a waste of time and money. And it is ugly too. A Typical Buffalo project. get rid of the red shed and throw a Starbucks down there.
Furthermore, it is nice to see that yet another project has not been tied up in litigation. Sometimes projects just need to move forward. This is oneo of them.
Development begets development.
THIS PROJECT WILL BE BIG FOR OUR CITY! I can't wait,... imagine how much progress will be happening in the surround area till its opening day! 2 years of cobblestone development, then BAM! A 5 star Casino! Beautiful. Keep it moving Buffalo! We will be looking much brighter within the next 3 years. Casino, inner and outer development, Federal Building, Dulski Builing, Gates Circle Condos, and the renovated Statler! Now... More lofts and downtown living please!
TDSBLO - I think he was trying to make the point that they are both vices, so whats the difference if they both cost money.
I have news for all of you - the restaraunts on Pine Avenue in the falls are awesome......some of the best food you will ever have. The Cuomo did not shut down or lose business. There are a slew of Italian spots up there that are doing very well. New bars and more restaraunts have opened in the last year.
In adddition, the outlet mall is doing record numbers and there are all kinds of drug stores, banks, businesses opening on Niagara Falls blvd..... so what is the problem?
I am indifferent to the Casino; where did the Casino in the falls hurt? Yes, the surronding area of the Casino is terrible, but it was trrible before!
The Casino is not the solution to turning around Buffalo, but a 333 million dollar project will not hurt; it will attract some much needed investment.
Use the Senecas for what they are worth. If Buffalo can not find a way to profit from a project of this magnitude then shame on us!
"COMPETITION is healthy! "...a VERY true statement. Maybe now all the dumpy hotels in downtown will raise their standards. I think they may be scared of COMPETITION. This should make the downtown area better as a whole.
nonono (stewey griffin?) old arguments are a reflection of the old mentality in WNY when it come to NEW development. This area is in a time warp (1950's?). The senecas show what can be done without all the red tape and lawsuits. Everyone blames our high tax's on lack of development. This is only partly true. Talk to almost any contractor and they will tell you how hard it is to build in Buffalo. If we are to move forward like this area should we need to capitalize on our resources. Any other part of the country would love to have niagara falls. Buffalo can tap into (no pun intended) this resource. If gambling, sports, guitar festival are the events and attractions we need to get people here so be it. The senecas are about to build more structures in this area than any other developer in my lifetime. NEW YORK STATE has been taking paychecks away from residents for decades dollar by dollar. Ever see someone go into a corner store and cash their paycheck and blow on the lotto?
I agree NewBFLO. at least the seneca project is HAPPENING. What is the latest news on Bashar Issa? What about city tower? No news lately?????
Cholate shake..."what's the difference between dropping 100 bucks at the casino and going to a hockey game and watch the Sabres get their arse kicked by Ottawa? Its all entertainment"....you NAILED IT RIGHT ON THE HEAD. NO difference with a self contained (ticket, parking, food, drink) in the arena with a casino. NO guarantee a sabres victory (loss of $200 for 2 people) or loss of $200 at a casino. Right now I would bet on winning at the casino before a sabres win....GO SENECAS...........
Let me be one of the first and probably one of the many to tell the hypocritical opponents... Let's Roll!!!!!
Chris, I think it is a great idea, but do we have the population and airport traffic to support a new light rail project and pay for it?
CKBuffalo said "I thought most of you were about buying local?"
They are CK they are just predjudiced against Native Americans they are closet bigots who feel they should decide which minority's are cool enough to feel compassion for. They are in short - hypocrites.
Boz, I have news for you...that is going to happen anyway. We have a declining population. We have to try something and fast.
This is an enormous project and if done right, it will attract people from out of town that may very well venture into the core of Buffalo.
More importantly, there are developers in NYC and around the country waiting to pounce on this area becuase it is so cheap. If and when they see things being built in Buffalo, they may take a chance too.
Queenseyes...why did Hoss' post get a five star rating and Bison 716 only two stars? Why diddpbfloI's post get a five star rating? I don't get the rating system. Who actually does the rating for BRO? Is it you? Is it an impartial panel of judges? It seems very subjective and judgmental. Please explain this to me. How can I get consistently good ratings? My self-esteem is at stake.
Bass Pro was offered a better deal - millions up front and no rent? Where is their shovel in the ground after 6 years of talk?
maybe if all other sporting good stores in western new york were mandated closed would the bass pro deal be considered better. How about let all the local developers construct their own casinos?
One day we won't need to care about national perception because we will have our own and it will mean something. I can't wait to see how empowering 22 stories of light will be and maybe it will shake some of the fear out of the suburbs, where in all actuality they have everything to loose. Buffalo's business leaders compete like they have a party started but in all honesty most of them are still stuck in the closet. I wonder how many shoes issa owns? The ideal spot for a stadium is on the outer harbor where we store the ice boom, just because it can create a hyper dynamic integration for infrastructure.(plus this is sacred land) They can develop a system to create a seasonal windfarm and find ways to funnel the tailgating action into a phenomenal tradition.
LOL " my parents and hard working people spending their hard earned dollars gambling" AS IF the Seneca's are outside forcing people in. It's by CHOICE if people want to waste their money. No sympathy here...It will make the skyline rather awesome for the first time in decades though and create jobs.
sports are as much an addiction as gambling. the casino is NOT A FIX FOR BUFFALO JUST ONE PIECE OF THE PUZZLE. NF is a dump don't expect the senecas to fix it alone. "A jewel in a pile of dog poop, still stinks". NF = dog poop, CASINO = jewel, nuff said?
SLEEPL8 - Here's the article on how the Niagara Falls casino is actually hurting the surrounding area: http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/niagaracounty/story/279062.html
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