It's always so easy to play online "Monopoly" with someone elses money. Loncto took a chance on this venture years ago when a running store in a converted house on Elmwood sounded like an eventual trip to bankruptcy court. He is in BUSINESS to make money, don't hold that against him. Service here has always been worth paying a little more than Dicks or Payless. The Turkey Trot, the Superbowl of the Buffalo running scene will pass right by this new location. Hmmmmm.... 10,000 runners going past your store?? Great free advertising!

Stereo Advantage left Elmwood ave years ago and have never looked back....you can't fault a business trying to max its potential.....no matter what the reason is...parking, bigger store, etc. Stores like this do realize the sort of bond they create with their customers (and loyal ones which typically is the case when talking specialty stores.. will follow).... but the bottom line is to have their profits continually grow from one year to the next....I know this stuff because I watch the Apprentice on TV...

buses are for poor people.........that is the perception over on this side of the pond unfortunately .

or the Sneaker Advantage so they can also purchase their $200 dungarees

Seems since the big elmwood village announcement businesses are closing left and right? Did property value jump that much? Did rents go thru the roof? Places like these that worked for so long all of the sudden do not work anymore?

Like NWR I thought the building was awesome and the location was a good fit. Anyway being the avid local business promoter I am, I wish all the best to fleet feet, good luck on your move and congrats on your growing business!

"people are claiming the new location isn't walkable. Newsflash -- plenty of people live nearby to Delaware/Hertel, and this new location is a damn sight more walkable for them then the old Elmwood location ever was."

Lets look at a buffer around the two locations in terms of number of residential parcels and their value.

1/4 Mile Buffer Elmwood Location: - 611 residential parcels - $180,359 Mean Value Delaware Location: - 282 residential parcels - $80,194 Mean Value

1/2 Mile Buffer Elmwood Location: - 2,404 residential parcels - $156,519 Mean Value Delaware Location: - 1,555 residential parcels - $101,664 Mean Value

There is a much higher density of people in higher value housing stock around their current location which means this is typically a better and more walkable location. Plus you need to take into account the quality of the streets around the store and that almost all those residential parcels lie across Delaware and Hertel from their new location, both streets are not very easy to cross for anyone wanting to get to their current store.

Their customers complain about parking but how many of their customers drove there only for shoes. I don't know but I am willing to bet it was a part of a larger agenda to shop, eat or hang out on Elmwood.

well said Colin........I hate strip malls as much as the next guy, but if I had the choice between a clean, somewhat eye pleasing strip mall placed in North Buffalo or a vacant, garbage strewn dirty parking lot a la Central Park Plaza or the awful corner of Elmwood / Hertel where that guy says those velvet paintings......I would choose the strip mall. At least this way people who live in the city don't have to drive to the burbs for their Cold Stone fix etc. (which I still don't get but people do like it and are will to pay for that crap)

You are correct Townline, I grouped Fleet Feet in with the likes of Get Dressed and Urban, who came into existence much earlier (early 90's) on Elmwood. I do not, however, follow your logic in not wanting to support them because of this move. I shopped at Hectors on Hertel for many years knowing full well I would pay higher prices than at a larger home center. Exceptional service made it worth the extra costs. But as anyone who has restored an old city home will tell you, sooner or later you have to go into the Big Orange Box on Elmwood to buy material. I'll patronize Hectors til the doors close for good in a few weeks. It is the people who own and work at these businesses that we should consider, not the street or block where their buildings sit. Why are Elmwoods villagers so territorial, reminds me of Clarence Center.

p.s I ate lunch at Romeo & Juliets in Williamsville recently in a building I believe was at one point Arbys. The food was just as good as it is at their Hertel location and the service just as courteous.

Fleet Feet is actually a national chain, that focuses on placing their franchised stores within communities that blend with the surrounding. They focus on retail in urban areas.

They are all over the country.

Fleet Feet's franchiser may be a local, but it is not a local business.

When my business has years that are up 30%, I'm afraid to tamper with anything. I don't even change my shirt.

1. The owners of Fleet Feet have created and nurtured a growing business. I'll take their word for what's best for the business.

2. I'd bet that most of their customers drive to the current location. I imagine very few people just happen to walk by and decide to spend $150 on high-end running shoes.

3. Developments like we see on Delaware between Hertel and Kenmore are actually good for the city. People have a clearly demonstrated desire for these sorts of "suburban" amenities. If we force them to go to the suburbs to get them, we lose their business as a city. These developments aren't sited downtown, or on the waterfront, or in the middle of an historic neighborhood.

There are times I understand the whole parking thing - some merchandise is heavy and bulky and you really need the wheels - but I don't understand it in the case of running shoes or CDs. Seems like those are exactly the kinds of stores that lend themselves to a more urban setting.

Perhaps they key phrase "our business has grown 30% this year." So they were Extremely successful in their business this year, but decided to move because they want parking.

To be honest, I think $90 - $120 for New Balance running shoes is crazy, but I did my business there BECAUSE it was a local company and it supported an urban business. Now they're moving to a tasteless atmosphere and into a market where they'll compete with Target and Payless who will offer running shoes for 1/2 - 3/4 the price. If I actually have to drive out to a plaza, I'll probably pay the lower prices.

ATTENTION FIREBRAND - huge opportunity to diversify your market, offer some running shoes!

Drew, Great comment. I think loaves and fishes is a truly great operation, and really an asset to our neighborhood. My only gripe is that people, whether attending loaves and fishes or not, are not asked to move on from the church property, esp. during the summer. There needs to be some sort of enforcement on this end either from the church organization or in conjunction with the police. I'm in that area every single day, and they don't bother me, but I can certainly understand how it can make people uncomfortable, especially those not familiar with the area. One of the reason the street started to revive in the 90s was because of Newell and other business owners actually getting the loiterers and panhandlers to move along. Its not that everyone should not be welcome in the neighborhood, but lines can be crossed when panhandling visitors, sleeping on public and private benches and alcohol becomes involved.

All that said, thank heavens a place like Loaves and Fishes exists for people to go when they don't have other options to sustain themselves.

al-alo, great prediction at the top of the thread!

Townline, i agree with your statements for the most part, but regarding parking, i'll throw out there the idea that there should be more parking for the elmwood strip. i know city-dwellers are often resistant to this, but there are tasteful ways to accomplish this. if we don't want successful businesses to leave for this reason, let's come up with a reasonable solution. (i envision a multifloor garage with first floor business space and a nice exterior. i dont know about the location, but with more ?low rent? store front it shouldnt be too much of an issue.)

Hoss - yeah, they're sitll a local company, but they're a completely different type of store now. A running store, that decided to change its style from a neighborhood location, where they let you jog down the sidewalk on nice days to test out the shoes to a typical suburban strip mall store. They are supporting a brand new sprawling plaza that can only be reached by car. Being in the city or not doesn't really make much difference to me. I love to shop in East Aurora. I definitely feel that part of what I am paying for when I shop on Elmwood is the experience. Its something that you can't get in the malls or plazas across WNY. Its why I'm perfectly willing to pay the steeper prices. Fleet Feet just lost that appeal for me.

I knew this comment would come up soon. I didn't know it would be in all caps, but I was pretty much just waiting for it to come.

1. Loaves and Fishes (The "bums" at the church) was there before Fleet Feet. Fleet Feet knew they were there when they moved in.

2. Most of the patrons of Loaves and Fishes live in the neighborhood.

3. Most of them only use the kitchen for a short time when its hard to make ends meet.

Believe it or not, this place is good for business. If it went away, its patrons would not. Likely, there would be more panhandling, more shop-lifting and more of the problems that are associated with poverty.

I got wind that fleet feet was thinking about leaving in advance. I called them, and while they do not like Loaves and Fishes (and told me as much) they also stated that it WAS NOT the reason they are leaving.

At least the residents of the Elmwood Village can continue to shop at this store with sacrificing any of their unbanity. It can be reached easily by metro bus by anyone who cares to use public transportaiton instead of driving. Taking a bus or subway for shopping is just as "urban" as walking to your destination, maybe more so.

Rhode, Are you saying that's bad or a non-issue?

A good portion of their profits go to paying a franchise fee. So it's not completely local. They're paying someone in Carrboro, NC (Fleet Feet's corporate HQ) to be in business.

If a business person decides there's added value received in return for a franchise fee, why should it bother anybody else?

If a company based in Buffalo expands by offering franchises to people in other cities, would that be any different good/bad?

Al-alo:

A good portion of their profits go to paying a franchise fee. So it's not completely local. They're paying someone in Carrboro, NC (Fleet Feet's corporate HQ) to be in business.

the EVA award was awarded a month or 2 ago. The owner surely was mulling over his idea to move for longer than 2 months. Therefore you cant conclude any recent moves were due to the new ranking. Draw conclusions 6 months from now when current leases begin expiring and owners have enough time to think out their decisions and work the logistics.

It's a sign of how pathetically Elmwood-centric this place is that people are claiming the new location isn't walkable. Newsflash -- plenty of people live nearby to Delaware/Hertel, and this new location is a damn sight more walkable for them then the old Elmwood location ever was.

Do you really think you're going to see the results from the national ranking in a matter of two months. It means far more for EVA's capabilities than just business retention. I think it is you that is being short sighted. God forbid they make a big deal over being considered one of the top 10 neighborhoods in the US - What exactly about that is short sighted?

The irony is that their customers will likely be walking a greater distance through the parking lot than they currently do. I have never had trouble parking on that Elmwood block. People think they are not near their destination when they have to park on the street. There is also that parallel parking paranoia.

By the way that building is not and never has been a house. It was styled in all its oddly ill proportioned glory in a misguided attempt to mimic the surrounding houses.

hmmm...I always thought city living was being able to leave your digs and WALK to the area shops? My bad.

How many suburbanites are going to venture into the big bad city for a pair of shoes and nothing else. They were stopping at their store on Elmwood because it was convenient in relation to other destinations. If suburbanites wanted a strip mall and a BJ's they will stay in burbs. Maybe he won over some customers that will venture back but I bet he isn't going to win over new customers at this location and in the end that is the downfall. He is going to go from standing out as a destination along a vibrant urban street scape to just another red neon sign that no one will think twice about in a strip plaza.

People come to Elmwood for the diversity, the urban experience, not for ease of parking. Sure they complain but if that experience is something they want then they will find a spot. No one is going to venture past 15 strip malls to go to the ones inside the city line. The city, can NEVER compete when it comes to free easy parking as soon as we do that we loose all the reasons to come here. Look at what happened to downtown when it followed that route. We demolished 50% of our core to make parking easy. The result is there isn't anything worth going or driving to anymore.

And sure it is just as urban to take a bus as walk someplace but here in America 90% of the people hate buses, even without any real reason to. People who would normally walk a mile to go to the store will NOT take the bus to do so. They will drive or go someplace else, but again... once you are in your car you will probably not be able to make that left turn, and end up just going to payless or target farther up Delaware and buy something cheaper.

Their only chances as I see it are in their new lines of shoes they bring in. If they bring in something truly unique that you can't get but is still desirable and affordable then I can see more people making the single purpose trip. Otherwise they are just going to slowly fade away.

People who buy their sneakers at Target or Payless are not the same people that buy their sneakers at Fleet Feet. Just like Oilver's wasn't too concerned when the IHOP opened up around the corner....sorry to see them leave their Elmwood location but I think it is a good business decison on their part. New Word Record on the other hand, unfortunately I think is doomed.

well at least elmwood got that planning award. Say what you will about the committee who awarded the EVA with it or the national recognition that it got in planning circles, but it really was a joke. I think the award is all well and good if it was announced and they had a little ceremony but to label it as some huge announcement just goes to show you that the people that run EVA are short sighted and out of touch with what goes on in Buffalo. I'm not trying to bash people here but look at the facts here. Two stores that make you think of what makes Elmwood Elmwood leave for greener pastures and its seems as if more businesses are closing. What exactly did this planning label give us?

I don't really care where Fleet Feet goes because it seems they are doing whats best for them and more power to them. I never shopped there but knew plenty of people who did and am glad they are staying in the city and not headed to some other strip mall in Kenmore.

well I wish them luck but I really don't see them doing as well. It is actually about 2.1 if you drive or walk the streets it is about 1 mile if you can fly, ya know like a crow.

Plus who is willing to walk from Elmwood to that section of Delaware way over by the Ihop... I don't own a car and walk or bike to just about anyplace and I wouldn't do it just for a pair of shoes. I would hop of a bus and go up there but to say it is within walking distance from their other store is just a plain out lie.

Plus being in a strip plaza with all that that parking means things are too spread out to be easily walkable. Going from their store to the Kmart or even new World record; what do you have to deal with?. Parking, NO SHADE, no place to sit down, car exhaust, narrow sidewalks, probably not shoveled, to close to the curb so you get splashed in weather like today and people beeping at you. It is just plain unpleasant which means they are going to loose all that business that was linked up with other shops on Elmwood. I can't go and get a cookie at spot, buy a Christmas gift at Cone Five, then grab a pair of shoes in one walking trip. I would have to go all the way over there for the single purpose of only buying shoes and THAT is the reason people will probably just go to Target because they are already in their cars and they can do more things without the extra trips. Elmwood works because it acts like a mall, the density of different stores makes it a convenient place to shop. Being next to an Ihop, Denny's, OTB, Timmy Ho's Big Lots (1/4 miles across a parking lot) means I can't do anything but buy shoes and eat crappy food.

Will I still make the trip to support a local(er) business than Target sure, probably, but the point is they are making it less convenient to go to. But then again by being near the highway, which they think is gods gift to shoes stores, from it being repeated everywhere, then I think they don't really care about the city residents but are trying to reach a larger suburban market.

I have a mail box account at the UPS Store on that corner. Right next to New World Records. I used to do my banking across the street at the now closed M&T branch, before I moved my banking to Fountain Plaza downtown last month. I still have to deal with that corner everyday. It is a challenging intersection. It is impossible to even attempt to make a left turn from Delaware into the New World / UPS parking lot. (Once in, the newly remodeled parking lot is much better now however.) I have to take Elmwood to Hertel and make a right just to get my mail. That is, I have to go over a mile out of my way just to be able to enter the parking lot. Once you are in that lot, you cannot leave unless you make a right onto Delaware. Forget about attempting a left turn, it will only upset every driver behind you. I used to attempt to walk across Delaware so that I wouldn't have to drive my car 2 miles to accomplish the 100 feet from the bank to my mail box. As they say in North Buffalo, "fuggetaboudit".

My point is that this intersection will provide the best possible laboratory for those or you who are speculating about the impact on a business of those two contrasting environmental models.

If an oversupply of parking is so important, why even start off at the current location?

Another cool place gone. I was excited when this place opened at this location and am sad to see it leave. I do go out of my for places like this, "Main St. America", to support them and their environments/neighborhoods. I can now cross another off my list.

I do wish them luck and hope they suceed as a buisness still in the city, but it no longer holds any allure to me over any other strip mall store. Part of the shopping experience is the overall atmosphere for me. Regardess of what lies inside the cinder block walls, what lies outside kills it for me. Having to drive location to location from sea of asphalt to sea of asphalt is sterile and stressful. Walking storefront to storefront among a real living urban fabric (the good and the bad) is what life is all about to me. Luckily I was blessed with the ability to come into contact with someone not as well off as me and not go into a panic attack. ;)

How sad...people won't walk a block or two to a store. As for New World Record, I don't think they'll be open long up on Hertel/Delaware. The store's location (next to a huge intersection) is hard to drive into. And everytime I've been there the last month or so...I've been the only one in the store.

the point isn't that we should be seeing huge results in 2 months, its that maybe the award a) should not have been hyped the way it was or b) should not been given at all. Remember the hype here on BRO with hundreds of posts? I really do not think the hype was warranted. As someone said before this move was probably in the works for a long time.

The award doesn't qualify the strip to do anything. If elmwood was such a great place to do business, fleet feet and NWR would not be moving regardless of the award. Take it for what its worth, a piece of paper and nothing more. The EVA should focus on maintaining its core businesses rather than creating false hype that they did here. There is clearly a failure on the EVA's part if businesses that are ideal for urban settings (hello NWR) if they are moving to a strip mall.

unfortunately, Bini & BROKBM havet right: poeple would rather walk to shop farther as long as that walk is totally within a large mall parking lot, and, they don't have to deal with "colored" people.

I'm guessing the future "insult to injury" will be when read there's going to be yet another tattoo parlor in the old Fleet Feet location...

WHAT IS THE REAL REASON THEY LEFT ELMWOOD AVE?

sj716, my friend, we are not race-baitig but telling like it is. whenever i hear people (especially "younger" suburban people) saying that they want parking for easier access as opposed to wlaking a few city blocks, I can't help but think that part of their problems is brushing against (egad!?) "undesirables" along elmwood.

And BROKEEPS, why are you telling anyone to get a car? Cars are murdering the Earth and highways for them are clearly destroying our waterfront's whole economy by being walls. We'd all be better off if cars didn't exist.

I have one but that's different.

I'm a customer and I walk to Fleet Feet. My employer is a customer, he walks to Fleet Feet. My Fiance is a customer, she walks to Fleet Feet (neither of us own a car). I'm sure a pretty decent percentage of their customer base is from the Elmwood Village, and I'm sure a lot of them walk. Yeah, they get people from the suburbs too, but would they locate on Elmwood or even Delaware is that was really the majority of thier customers?

Oh yeah, and we both ride the bus regularly, and we're not poor.

Dammit, whenever i try to stop a post before the page changes, it always posts anyways. Sorry bout that.

As SBROF said.

No problem with parking as long as it is hidden/does not take presidence over people. Look at the Ulrich City Center in Lockport. Buidlings up to the street surrounding a parking lot in the center of the block. Stores have entrances on both sides (lot and street) What is so hard about this?????? Why do we continue to build these buildings 50-200ft back from the street behind a block of parking? Its ugly and discourages people movement.

The city had a chance here to offer suburban vehicle convienence in an quasi-urban atmosphere. All we got was the same old same old. Hopefully furute developments will finally put some city and people-centered development back in the city.

This wasn't a Wilson Farms. I doubt a majority of the customers would be trying to save a precisous 5-10 mins in getting the expertiese and running shoes.

The old Latina plaza block is ripe for a rebuild of buildings up to the street on all three sides with parking contained within the footprint. Larger stores could be laid out for buisnesses such as this that need larger spaces. If space was the true need here, it's a shame that a typical poorly designed plaza was the only/best option.

"Lets look at a buffer around the two locations in terms of number of residential parcels and their value." -sbrof

That's a great comparison. I'd be curious to know what a comparison of average rent, price per squre foot, would look like between the two locations.

That should say, "...without sacrificing any of their unbanity." (wish there was an edit feature available)

"The particular block that we’re in is a tough sell for suburbanites. People don’t want to walk far to get here. "

What??? I don't even know where to begin...

I am not against the business and don't get my wrong.. I don't even live in the Elmwood Village but as someone who takes the bus, or walks to do all their shopping this new location is far from convenient. I was just trying to dispel the idea that this strip plaza environment is somehow good for the city or the business. There are ways to have your parking and a walkable commercial street two. It could easily happen in and around this intersection but no one wants to listen or make those kinds of decisions. The powers that be want this to be a little version of the suburbs right in the city. There is no reason we couldn't have built those new stores in clusters along a new, wider sidewalk and put the parking behind it. Create some attractive covered arcades, or back door entrances and walla.. done. simple really. win-win. Parking plus convenient to shop at multiple place. I mean that is why people go to the Mall right?

This area has the history of old railroads and open industrial lands which means we don't need to tear down a home (atwater) for 10 parking spots. The problem is even with a blank slate the city allows crap for urban design which means instead of being a great place for everyone, on foot or in a car, it caters to only those in the car. I just walked form Home Depot to EB Games the other day to do a little Xmas shopping, it took 20 minutes to go between them, that is anything BUT pedestrian friendly.

I used to work at a Fleet Feet in another city before moving to Buffalo. Our store was in a strip mall (near three major interstate highways), but we let people run on the sidewalk and made them feel like it was a small store. The result was 4th largest specialty running store in the country. They'll be fine as long as they don't change their service for customers. As for people not wanting to walk two blocks from their parking spot, I cannot understand what is wrong with them. It's just pathetic.

Congrats on growing, Fleet! Let's all remember that people are in business to make money. Sure, if they all sold rugs made of puppy-pelts sewn together by illegal immigrant slaves, that would be bad. BUT, if a locally owned franchise is successful, let's be happy for the owner & employees that have jobs to get up in the morning for... Ironically, if all businesses on Elmwood grew by that much, think about how much the nieghbors would complain... (Oh, and the fact that Fleet is growing by largely selling shoes made with factory farmed leathers that are sewn in China does not escape me. Vote with your dollars, people.)

I'm a customer and I walk to Fleet Feet. My employer is a customer, he walks to Fleet Feet. My Fiance is a customer, she walks to Fleet Feet (neither of us own a car). I'm sure a pretty decent percentage of their customer base is from the Elmwood Village, and I'm sure a lot of them walk. Yeah, they get people from the suburbs too, but would they locate on Elmwood or even Delaware is that was really the majority of thier customers?

SteveP - What exactly do you know about EVA and what it does, and how the designation impacts their capacity? Why don't you give a call over there and speak with them about it rather than just throwing out all of your armchair assumptions?

yeah. Ann (who runs loaves and fishes) and I do that when we can, but sometimes we have other things to do. We have NO problem at all with the Police doing a better job.

Colin - I drove over from Parkside to purchase not a $150 pair of running shoes, but a $100 pair from Fleet Feat. I still really liked their store. I hope that them growing will expand their selection.

Hey, at least they are still in the City, thank God for that. With all the negativity about strip malls, at least builders are starting to find benefits in Buffalo.

I hope your new location is nicer than where New World Ended up. I honestly can not figure out that move. Going from a prime location with amazing foot traffic to one with a very busy car intersection and confusing entrances.

For everyone dropping the race/food kitchen/pan handling card, what city doesn't have those issues within it? I think that area is nice, especially St. James St.

Good luck with the move, and continued success.

Where is the perception that "The Elmwood Village People," whoever that means, only want overpriced mom and pop shops? Do you really think its the association that chooses what businesses locate on the street? A couple years ago, they tried to help Gap locate on the street, and it fell through for corporate reasons. I think the Elmwood Village Association is very welcoming to any quality business. The problem, like someone mentioned, is the quality of the spaces on the street. Without building a new building, tell me which spaces, exactly, are suitable for a national chain that desires a modern building, open floor plan, stroller/handicap accessibility, etc....

or say a amherst business moved into the old don pablos on elmwood?

al-alo - you know th