Ellicott Proposes a Strong Mix of Uses for Webster Block

Ellicott Development’s proposal for the Webster Block envisions a mixed-use building bringing 24/7 activity to lower Main Street.  Ellicott Development and the Sabres organization have each submitted proposals to develop the full-block, City-owned site bound by Main, Scott, Perry and Washington streets.  Ellicott is teaming with Castle & Mosey LLC on its project.
Encompassing the entire block, Ellicott’s complex consists of a 12-story hotel, office, retail and residential building at the north end of the property fronting on Scott Street from Main to Washington streets.  Public and private parking facilities, office space on the 6th floor above the parking component and retail space fronting along Main and Perry Streets would occupy the southern end of the complex. 

The primary building material will be brick.  Pre-cast and steel elements will be used to add visual interest to the project and special care will be taken to mask the parking from view.  The entire north side of the parking ramp will be covered by the hotel, office and residential building.  The first two levels of the parking along Main Street and the ground floor parking along Perry Street will be hidden by the retail and tenant storage space.  Screening, warehouse-style window frames and other architectural treatments will be used to minimize the visual impact of the parking above the retail and tenant storage space.  
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The complex will include 140 hotel rooms and suites, 110,250 square feet of office space, a restaurant, retail space, and 42 luxury apartments.  Retail space, parking areas, and lobbies will occupy the first floor.  Hotel services and parking will occupy the second floor.  Office space will be located on the 3rd, 4th and 6th floors of the building.  The 5th, 7th, 8th and 9th floors will include 140 hotel rooms, consisting of 116 standard rooms and 24 suites.  Apartments would occupy the 10th, 11th and 12th floors.
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Design
The project will follow the intent of the Canal Side Design Guidelines, which called for a stepped approach with lower lying, lower density buildings to the west of Main Street, and taller, higher density buildings to the east of Main Street.  Guidelines also suggest active first-floor uses, corner elements, pedestrian-level canopies, hidden parking, rooftop terraces, and building materials such as brick, stone and steel.  
Led by architect Charles Gordon, the design team drew its inspiration from its lower Main Street context, especially its proximity and relationship to the historic waterfront and nearby significant architecture:  First Niagara Center, the HSBC Atrium Office Building, One News Plaza, and the soon to be redone Donovan Building, One Canalside.
The Donovan Building to the north is eight stories, and the HSBC Atrium to the east is six stories.  The project will present a varied and interesting skyline with the hotel and residential tower rising several stories above the parking structure.     
A six level, L-shaped hotel/residential tower located above the parking/office components, is configured to provide a prime viewing experience toward the foot of Main Street and toward the historic canals, presently in construction.  Building materials for the residential tower include brick with glass corners, especially at Scott and Main.  The glass corners will reduce the overall bulk of the tower and expand opportunity for extensive views.  The proposal envisions that the long leg of the “L” facing the waterfront will be more transparent, with larger windows as befits its orientation, while the Washington Street and Scott Street fa├žades will be characterized by smaller “punched” windows.  The tower will have both fixed and operating windows.

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A new pedestrian-scaled street that connects Washington Street with Main Street is proposed to break the block into two sections.  This new street is critical to establishing the Webster project area as a strategic urban design “hub” which seamlessly unites existing downtown amenities and strengthens the transition between the larger blocks east of Washington Street and the smaller blocks of the Central Wharf.  Further, the proposed new street reduces the overall scale of the project area and provides a comfortable pedestrian environment with valuable corner retail opportunities.  
“Back of house” services, office entries, and primary parking entries for both hotel and parking area will be located on Washington Street.  Primary parking access is proposed from Washington Street to preserve Main Street’s pedestrian environment.
Hotel
Even after taking into account the new Marriott Courtyard proposed for the Donovan Building, a market study conducted for the project supported the plans for a new 140-room hotel at Canalside.  
“It will be a select-service hotel, similar to a Hampton Inn, that targets the business, family and leisure traveler,” says Paul Gregory, Ellicott’s vice president of development.  “There’s enough demand downtown for another hotel today and we believe the demand for rooms at the Inner Harbor will only increase in the future.”
Gregory says the hotel will be a national chain, will not have a big food and beverage operation, and only a limited amount of meeting space.  
“The building’s location on light rail is important, it opens downtown to our guests,” he says.
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The first floor of the twelve-story building will be dedicated to the hotel lobby and operations, an apartment lobby, an office lobby, a restaurant, a newsstand, an indoor pool, and an enclosed loading area.  The hotel lobby will be partially two stories high with expansive windows looking out onto Scott Street (above).  An open staircase will lead to a second floor breakfast area and conference rooms overlooking historic Canalside.  The second floor will also include a fitness center, a business center and administrative and support space. 
Office
Office space will be located on the third, fourth and sixth floors.  The sixth floor on top of the parking component will have 73,000 sq.ft. of office space, one of the largest floorplates in the region.  As a comparison, Larkin at Exchange’s floor
s are approximately 60,000 sq.ft. in size.
“The sixth floor will be one big open floor,” says Gregory.  “There’s nothing like that in downtown Buffalo, besides maybe Main Place’s third floor.  It’s pretty unique to Buffalo.”

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While the market for older, Class B office space in downtown remains weak, the market for more efficient Class A office space remains relatively tight.  The Central Business District realized a positive absorption of office space in every year from 2005 to 2011.  From 2010 to 2011, the vacancy rates in the Buffalo office market decreased to 8.2 percent, which compares favorably to the national average of 16.5 percent.  
Notwithstanding, these figures, Ellicott recognizes the potential challenges in the office market, especially given the uncertainty surrounding One HSBC Center.  In the event the national and/or local office market deteriorates and financing for the office component is not available, the 6th floor office component will be withdrawn from the project and the overall size of the project will be reduced.  If a tenancy is discovered that may require more large office floors, they can be inserted.

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Residential
The top three floors will contain 42 high-end apartments, ranging in size from 1,200 square feet to more than 3,000 square feet.  The residences will feature hardwood floors, imported tile in the bathrooms, granite countertops, walk-in closets, and laundry rooms with washer and dryer hook-ups.  Each unit gets two parking spaces.  
Residents will be able to take advantage of the many amenities and services offered by the hotel, including concierge and housekeeping services.  The apartments, hotel rooms and office floors will offer views of Canalside, the Inner Harbor, downtown Buffalo and the Buffalo River. 
Based on market research and experience, Ellicott believes there is strong demand for high-end rental apartments in downtown.  Ellicott currently owns over 287 mid to high-end rental units in and around downtown.  Occupancy rates at their comparable properties have consistently exceeded 95 percent.  The average number of days required to re-lease Ellicott’s vacant units has generally been less than 30 days, and their rentals rates have consistently exceeded $1.15 per square foot.  
“Our success has been at the high-end of the market,” says Gregory.  “These will be large and well-appointed.”

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Retail
The retail market presents the greatest challenge according to Ellicott Development.  Retail space will be divided into smaller storefronts with entrances no more than 75 feet apart.  The project will be built to the build-to lines on all streets, except along Main Street, where it will be set back to permit a 20 foot wide, more pedestrian friendly sidewalk and allow for patio dining and landscape improvements.
The retail market in downtown Buffalo, especially for large national tenants, is virtually non-existent.  However, considering the limited amount and sizes of the retail space, Ellicott believes that there is enough current demand among small boutique retailers and restaurants to justify the space allocated. The developer has had preliminary discussions with several local restaurant operators who have expressed an interest in the area and at least one local retailer.  
Parking
The parking facility, oriented towards Washington Street, will have a total of 1,089 parking spaces, including 841 spaces for the general public, subject to a preference for the building’s office and retail tenants, and 248 private reserved spaces for hotel guests and residents of the building.
Entrance/exits to the public parking will be located on Washington and Main streets near the south end of the block.  The Main Street exit will facilitate traffic patterns by permitting right hand turns for northbound traffic exiting the site.
The Canalside master plan identified five sites for structured parking representing more 2,200 parking spaces.  A couple of these sites are no longer feasible (Marine Drive) or the parking has been substantially curtailed (Aud site).  As a result, Gregory says there will be strong demand for structured parking.
“We’ll be providing parking for daytime downtown employees, event parking and for Canalside,” he says.  
The proposed parking is anticipated to positively impact the surrounding area.  By providing critical parking to Canalside, the project will allow the more sensitive parcels to the west of Main Street to be developed from a more historical perspective.  By providing parking for arena events, the project could also help free up the surface lots in the Cobblestone District for future development.  

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Development Team
Ellicott Development is teaming with Castle & Mosey LLC on the project.  The principals are currently developing a $30 million, mixed-use project at 5195 Main Street in Amherst that includes a 120-room hotel, 33 luxury apartments, a restaurant, 4,000 square feet of retail space, and a parking garage.  
Ellicott Development has been responsible for more than $500 million in real estate development projects, ranging from new construction to historic rehabilitations.  Together with its affiliates, it owns and controls more than five million square feet of office, commercial and residential space, including more than two million sq
uare feet of office space in downtown Buffalo, seven hotels with three more under development, 287 mid to high-end apartment units with another 71 units under construction, and more than two million square feet of retail space throughout Upstate New York and Western Pennsylvania.  Ellicott Development employs more than 500 people locally.
Castle & Mosey LLC and its affiliates have substantial real estate holdings throughout Western New York and Southern Ontario, including office buildings, shopping centers, hotels and self-storage facilities.  Castle & Mosey and its affiliates employ more than 700 people in Western New York.
Process
Each of the two potential development teams will be making formal presentations to the City in coming weeks.  A developer for the site is expected to be named in August.  If selected, Ellicott Development proposes to begin construction next May and complete work by December 1, 2014.  
If chosen, Ellicott Development says it will encourage the Sabres to participate in the development of the commercial space along Perry Street and allow the Sabres to connect directly into the project with an overhead walkway across Perry Street.
Ellicott Development, one of the region’s busiest developers, has a number of projects underway and planned.  For those clamoring for Ellicott to begin work on the Creamery building on Scott Street and the long-planned Court Street Tower, Gregory urges patience.
“We have a lot of projects underway,” he says, and rattled off a list of their current Buffalo developments including reuse of the Graystone Hotel, conversion of the former New Life Assembly of God church at 189 N. Pearl Street, new apartments at The Bellasara in Allentown, and redevelopment of the former Grace Manor Nursing Home on Symphony Circle.  
Gregory says Ellicott is currently pursuing an office tenant that would anchor the proposed Court Street building.  The tenant is expected to make a decision on its space needs in “a couple months.”  As for the Creamery, plans for the property are still not settled but Gregory says they “plan on getting to it.”  Other projects in the pipeline include redeveloping two Main Street church properties: Our Lady of Lourdes near the Medical Campus and the former Mount St. Joseph Academy property at Jewett Parkway.
Gregory believes their proposal is a strong one, would add to downtown’s momentum, and would become a hub of activity at the foot of Main Street.  
“This is shaping up to be an exciting year for Buffalo,” says Gregory.
Note: The Sabres’s have not revealed their proposed project’s design.  It calls for two hockey rinks, a sports bar/restaurant, garage parking for 900 cars, and a 200-room hotel.  Buffalo Rising will give their project equal exposure if they so desire.  

About the author  ⁄ WCPerspective

Buffalo and development junkie currently exiled in California.

73 comments
LouisTully
LouisTully

Here's what I foresee happening:

Carl Paladino: Regardless of the City's stipulation of when the project must be started and completed, his entire project will involve talk of where he will get the money to do this project and explaining the financial reasons behind holdups. Corners will be cut to make it work financially and the finished product will not be the same as what we thought we were getting when started.

Terry Pegula: Pulls out his wallet and pays for the entire project up front. With his own money. Then throws in a couple extra bucks for Brown and the Common Council to get themselves a coffee and donuts.

nyc
nyc

the drop off is primarily for the hotel.

LouisTully
LouisTully

Don't feed the troll.

And further, don't distract him. He has been working on the same renovation project for twenty years. He needs to get it done and doesn't need the distraction.

WHD: if you'd like, I'll bring some lemondade to help get you through your day.

costrander08
costrander08

I see you have said this at least three times. Perhaps you are the only one feeling this way.

Technically the RFP process rewards the best/most effective plan. Or, it takes the long way to reward the highest bidder. The way the City went about this is genius. They left the placemaking, obstructionist jackasses out of the process while ensuring the bid process will reward the group with the best project and who will get their project built immediately.

Unlike every other project that has even been considered for Canalside, this will be built on a quick timetable to ensure at least part of the neighborhood gets some density, population and potential foot traffic. In actuality, by keeping this out of the hands of those who would table, study, re-study and re-table the project (ECHDC); the city has all but guaranteed a usable, functional building will be built near the waterfront for the first time since about 1899.

But, yeah, lets keep planting grass, buying lawn chairs and providing public access to a small park with a waterfront view. Beauty.

Tom
Tom

its not that simple. The highest bidder could put an awful plan in there that Buffalo is stuck with forever because we didn't want to spend time and think about what we are doing..

Also by you posting almost the exact same comment 3 times in the same thread does not help to get your point across..

Tom
Tom

I don't think the HSBC tower will be emptied. Also the Statler and AM&As are totally separate from canalside. Different developers, etc. I don't understand why your suggesting to wait?

warehousedweller
warehousedweller

SELL IT TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER AND WERE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

paulsobo
paulsobo

Actually as much as I want the Hyatt converted to mixed use and replaced with another downtown hotel...the point was made that the Statler and AM&As must get redeveloped first.

Its a matter of priorities.

Canalside can wait...its not going anywhere. I say put it on hold and get the 2 largest projects off the list: Statler and AM&As.

Heck the redevelopment of those 2 sites might do in the Hyatt as a hotel all by themselves, then we can re-open Genessee Street and start planning a new convention / conference center.

If we rush into Canalside then we build something mediocre on prime land that we will be stuck with for the next 50 years. Better to wait and get something wonderful and put our energies into AM&As and the Statler.

Plus we could be stuck with an empty HSBC Tower...which the only way I can think of to fill it would force the conversion of the Liberty, Rand, and other pre-war buildings to residential as their business clients move to HSBC.

Richmondurp
Richmondurp

This is why I'm anxious to see Pegula's renderings. I'm sure they took the FNC atrium view into account.

LouisTully
LouisTully

Forget Court Street. Paladino has plenty of other projects that I'd like to see completed before Court Street or this on Webster. I'm not even that concerned about the creamery. I'm more interested in what's happening with the Greystone and his Main Street properties.

LouisTully
LouisTully

I was thinking about views, being that anything on the Webster block is going to hide the FNC atrium. But really, we're worrying about blocking views? But we want density? Can't have both, right?

Lego1981
Lego1981

Yes, because the last announcement for 'Court Street Tower' was to include a hotel on the upper floors and first floor retailer. So, what's the difference? Location? We have a demand for more living downtown, the Court St. building could be just a hotel and living spaces since the so called 'office market' is slow. Would like to see something than look at that ugly parking lot.

MikeN
MikeN

Looks like someone dropped a building on a building which ironically then blocks most all of the Atrium view, more than not of the News building view and probably a good chunk of the former Dovovan builidng view which may even lose even more of a view once the Aud site is developed. It pretty much hides the entire expanse down Washington and into Perry. Great design. Top notch. Ironically, for the Creamery, the market can't support additional units down there. But two streets over can.... makes me wonder. So yeah maybe I can bungee jump off this bohemoth if and when it ever becomes viable to actually build.

atypical
atypical

Hard to get excited about the tower component. It's just soooo blah!

Looks like they took the Elmwood Square Apartment building on the corner of Elmwood and West Utica; dressed it up with different windows on the side - and placed it on top of a big box.

https://content.related.com/SiteCollectionImages/New%20York%20Affordable/Elmwood%20Square%20450x570.jpg

And why no retail on Washington Street?

Still think they should try to combine the Paladino and Pegula ideas and add about 25 floors to the tower and go further underground for parking.

Paladino can do better and - we deserve no less.

Think BIG or go home.

Tom
Tom

My main question when looking at canalside projects is will they draw people from the suburbs to the city. And the answer to this proposal is no. We need to draw people to canalside. People haven't been going downtown for the past 30 years why should they now? The ice rinks would bring people down. This office/hotel/apt while would bring in some new residences is not a bad plan, but I think it could be anywhere. Bring people downtown who aren't usually there should be the goal of canalside development.

Richmondurp
Richmondurp

I'm sure these companies would not mind occupying the quickly emptying HSBC tower.

5to81ALLDAY
5to81ALLDAY

i can promiss you that the 75,000sf office space will be shown a TON of interest from Buffalo area companies (hopefully outside buffalo companies too). These large plates are perfect for call centers or companies with a large bullpen that need all of their employees on one floor

Richmondurp
Richmondurp

I don't like it. If you look at the renderings some have the old Donovan and HSBC arena. How long have they had these plans if the renderings are that old?

Canalside is an ever-evolving project. I don't think this building fits for Canalside's goal. This SHOULD be built on one of the lots in the cobblestone district.

I know we have not seen the Rink renderings yet but I still 100% believe a rink is the right choice. Take it from someone who has played hockey since 6 years old. A rink is busy 6 am - 1 am. Everyday.

longgone
longgone

That big drop off area serves the food and retail. It will probably have it's own valet.

nyc
nyc

and you are missing the point.

and there is a big area for drop offs on Scott Street already as shown by the curb alignment.

warehousedweller
warehousedweller

SELL IT TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER AT PUBLIC AUCTION .LET THEM DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH IT, WITH THIER OWN MONEY! USE THE PROCEEDS TO FIX STREETS AND SIDEWALKS IN THE CITY.THIS IS PATHETIC . ALL OF THE TIME { TAXPAYER MONEY ] BEING WASTED ON A PIECE OF VACANT LAND .LETS MOVE ON BUFFALO !! THE CITY IS ALLWAYS STUMBLING ON LITTE CRAP LIKE THIS

nyc
nyc

no, wait...you're wrong!

longgone
longgone

You're wrong.

By moving the hotel pick up and drop off to the 'driveway' it removes congestion on Scott and thus makes Scott more pedestrian friendly.

saltecks
saltecks

The problem with the Ellicott developments proposal is that the office component is tentative. Eyewash if you will. Read between the lines They will not build speculative space. If they did Court st would be up and running by now. The remainder of the project is passive. There is nothing in and of itself to generate that urban spark that will attract people to that site. The hotel component, the retail component feed off external events which attract people.

On the other hand the Sabres proposal, also includes a hotel and retail, but in addition contributes (via the ice rinks) an active stimulus to a 24/7 environment.

costrander08
costrander08

Based on projects that Paladino has completed (Waterfront Place), this is an exciting step in teh right direction. Having him say they would start construction in May is a good promise to hold him to.

Personally, this is a win-win. As others have said, it would be ideal if both projects could be built. I'd love to see the Sabres win the bid and have Paladino put his efforts into Fairmont nearby. While an ideal situation, that probably isn't realistic. It may be more realistic for Paladino to win Webster and then to have Uncle Terry put his money into the Cobblestone Parking District with this project to add density to the block bounded by Perry, Mississippi and South Park.

Or maybe this could be a sledding hill. #amiright

nyc
nyc

they are calling this a "street" and claiming they make the block more pedestrian friendly. That is entirely not true. They also falsely claim that it breaks the block up like the Canalside blocks. Again false, the corresponding block across Main Street in Canalside is just as long.

I totally accept there will be curb cuts and drop offs and overhangs, I just don't like when people pretend they are some kind of public amenity, as if its for the public good. So yes, call it a driveway...there is a difference because now, why are there two driveways that cut across the width of the block and hit main street twice? They don't do that in Chicago, San Diego, or wherever else.

longgone
longgone

Would you be happy and shut up if they called it a driveway?

Christ on a cracker people..some of you get your panties in a bunch over anything.

Do you know what that 'street' does..it keeps cars and taxies off Scott. It also keeps hotel guests somewhat protected from the elements. These 'streets' are used by hotels all over the US...from San Diego to Chicago.

paulsobo
paulsobo

I like it. Its mixed use. It has retail, hotel, residential and office which means that it can shift uses as Canalside continues to develop.

Id like to see more hotel space. Mostly because the reason for the big taxpayer subsidy that keeps extending the life of the Hyatt is a large number of rooms are needed for big events. Id like to see this hotel compete with that if not replace it.

Ive long thought and wished the Hyatt would convert to mixed use which would justify demolishing the atrium and reopening Genesee Street

Plus Snyder and Hyatt have been the major opponents to a neww convention center. UB Amherst is in need of a conference center. Buffalo State and the culturals are in need of a conference center. It only seems logical that a growing portion of our convention business is conferences and expos rather than full conventions.

The current convention center is obsolete and doesnt belong in the middle of the government district. Its dead space.

I wish this proposal was a little bigger in scale but I think it sets the right pieces in motion for better things in downtown Buffalo.

flyguy
flyguy

If Hyatt Ragency goes then does that building go the way of the Statler? Lafayette Hotel until recently? Would hate to end up with another building on egde. I dont think that would be a better option. I do agree a new convention center would make sense and hopefully result in a better Pearl Street once that god aweful back wall of the existing convention center would hopefully go away. In addition returning Genessee Street to traffic would be smart and logical.

Then again if a new convention center went up and all of the sudden Hyatt went away and the old convention center site cleared for new development I wonder what the city would get or if and who would step up to invest large amounts of dollars in new build down there. Seems very few are interested at this time in stepping up with big development proposals in downtown Buffalo other local ones already tied down in other projects. A larger developer pool may be needed and thats what concerns me. Seems like outside interests are not interested in Buffalo.

Up and coming
Up and coming

(while I'm at it) WE NEED A BRIDGE CONNECTING MAIN ST AND THE OUTER HARBOR!!!!

Up and coming
Up and coming

JM I totally agree about the rinks. That would def add to the 24/7 vibrancy as parents would bring their kids to the rinks after working hours and spend time at Canalside as they wait for their kids practice to end. Also, having retail and restaurants open would keep the working crowd a little later. Also, we're starting to see "some" residential (Elk Terminal Lofts, Seneca st, Larkin District and whatever is across from the HSBC atrium in the Cobblestone district) pop up and I could def see the demographic of these projects helping to support new types of restaurants and retail.

paulsobo
paulsobo

Say goodbye to the Hyatt Regency. They were a money loser who only justified their taxpayer subsidies because downtown needed a large enough hotel to handle large events. If this gets built right across the street from the Arena then fah-ghedda-bouddit.

Kiss the Hyatt and its Gennessee Street blocking atrium goodbye.

Snyder and the Hyatt were also the biggest obstacles in opposing a new convention center. If the Hyatt and Snyder fall then Buffalo could see a new convention and conference center on the table for the public to approve.

Now I know there are those that snidely dismiss convention centers...but we have a growing Life Sciences Campus, Banking, Insurance and other regional industries that want conference space.

Conference space is desired at UB Amherst, Buffalo State and the culturals...there is no reason why UB downtown and the research centers wont have a growing conference need.

Of couse I predicted that a smart thing would be to expand the downtown library for ECC and Life Sciences Campus. Could really make a big impact on Buffalo too.

Buffalo has to compete with the suburbs too and library/conference space are big ways to level the playing field.

5to81ALLDAY
5to81ALLDAY

Nothing is worse than sitting for hours at the rink in between games at a tournament. If Pegula ramps up his package and takes some of Carl's ideas as well, this could actually be a silver bullet. Hockey moms would be delited to spend some cash in Canalside while their kids are playing.

nyc
nyc

i would definitely agree with this.

The only advantage to the Paladino proposal are the residential units.. but there are only 42. That's not bad but i think the advantage of having a constant activity generator such as the rinks is far better and compliments the adjacent arena and outdoor rinks at canalside. If the rink scheme is married to a good retail plan at the first floor, it's a far batter option especially with the larger hotel on top.

warehousedweller
warehousedweller

SELL IT TO THE HIGHES BIDDER,USE THE MONEY TO TEAR DOWN SOME MORE GARBAGE IN THE GHETTO.

JM
JM

When choosing what goes there I think it should be considered. They all should work together, don't you think? I just don't like office space after 5pm and on weekends.

Pegulas will draw more people, especially tourist types from other places. This is new money for more retail. We want to capitalize on Canadian tourists don't we?

longgone
longgone

Are you seriously asking "why haven't they started on the 'Court Street Tower' yet?"

Court Street is an office building. It was first projected to be 335,000 sq.ft. and then revised to 184,000 sq.ft.. The above project is projected to have ~74,000 sq.ft. and mostly consist of hotel and residential rooms.

In case you were sleeping for the last 5 years, HSBC is no longer the main employer in Buffalo and that big tower they had...well it's having some occupancy issues. Why would anyone build 184k sq ft off office space when the market is this soft?

I swear it's like the armchair developers do not even bother to look at the numbers.

Up and coming
Up and coming

"I don't like it, I thought Canalside was supposed to be for the general public, besides some of the retail space outside I doubt I'd ever set foot in this building."

Is this really even considered part of the CanalSide footprint? Plus, Canalside is full of Public Space. We need these types of projects (Hotels Offices Condos) to spur development downtown.

nyc
nyc

If you look at the plan drawing - the "street" has no sidewalk along the south side and the north side is not a continuous connection - it shifts horizontally to go around angled parking and there is very little commercial space fronting the "street". It's also only 8' wide. It's the furthest thing from the a pedestrian friendly connection across the block. And the "streets" make 2 curb cuts on Main Street - breaking up the sidewalk - the "streets" are not there to make the block more pedestrian friendly.

And the frontage is not that long - it's not a huge block. It's very similar to the frontage on the opposite side of Main Street at canalside - the side they say they are responding to when they break up the webster block with "streets". Calling them "streets" is intended to mask fact they are placing excessive curb cuts on this block.

Up and coming
Up and coming

"Don't bite the hand that feeds you."

Signed,

Terry Pegula

flyguy
flyguy

Who cares? Whatever. Is that meant to be a mean spirited and judgemental jab?

JM
JM

I don't like it, I thought Canalside was supposed to be for the general public, besides some of the retail space outside I doubt I'd ever set foot in this building.

According to the Project Goals http://www.eriecanalharbor.com/pdf/CanalSideProjectGoals.pdf I think the Rink fits in much more. Fits in for tourism, better public use, what kind of public events will the Office space be holding? at night on weekends?

I'd love to see this project built but I think it could be built elsewhere, pretty much the same place others say the rink should be.

schvanstuchen
schvanstuchen

That block is a long stretch and a street to break it up is a good design element. Not sure what you mean by no sidewalk- I cant see from the renderings. If there is a cut-thru street is certainly needs to be pedestrian friendly.

5to81ALLDAY
5to81ALLDAY

I think Pegula should just go back to the drawing table and put together a project that is way over the top and blows Carl out of the water

Add another floor of hotel, another 75,000sf office floor, and 1-2 more floors of apartments.

One thing that NEEDS to happen is to have a landscaped terrace that either a restaurant/bar or event space. This will be like no other space in Buffalo. You can't really beat cocktails on the rooftop, but i'm sorry, skybar isn't going to cut it.

Chris
Chris

I like the idea better than the sabres, not so sure about the design. I really wish the city would have waited for canalside to develop more which would have the parcel more attractive for development.

Paladino gets a bad rap because he is the largest property owner in downtown. If he didn't own the buildings someone else would and the attention and it wouldn't be so concentrated. It also doesn't help that he doesn't care what people think and will rip you if provoked.

I don't understand why people blame him for the parole office on main street. Isn't it the parole office prerogative where they sign a lease?

LouisTully
LouisTully

Aye. I'm all for massaging his wallet. Paladino is all for massaging ours.

nyc
nyc

The "new street" is a bunch of b.s. It doesn't help the block in the least and is actually a detriment to the pedestrian experience on Main Street. There isn't even a sidewalk along the south side of it. The only reason it exists is to maximize vehicular circulation to and from the hotel drop off/ lobby and parking structure. So please, give us all a break and spare us the nonsense of calling it a "street". And then there is second "street" to the south of this...pedestrian streetscape continuity on Main Street is more important than cutting the block up into "streets".

Also - retail space on Main is too shallow.. not sure how serious they are about retail. At least its there.. I guess.

I am definitely curious to see the Pegula proposal....

Slu
Slu

I also like the design and agree that there are better locations for the rinks.

Guess at tenant for office space? HSBC? Seems like a good spot for them. Out of the tower, large floor plates, across from the Atrium...

elmdog
elmdog

This is a much better project than the ice rinks....The only aspect that is tough to deal with but obviously needed is the parking ramp.......

If they can land an outside of the city,county, state company to lease the large floor plan and also attract a nice hotel with a few other commercial tenants - this will be aligned nicely with the rest of the projects....

But once again, I will say that there still isnt any moment from outside companies, retail etc....except for the hotels....that is disappointing because it might mean that no one else believes in our inner harbor

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