Disappointing, Revised Casino Plans Unveiled

The Seneca Nation unveiled a new design for the Buffalo Creek casino complex on their nine-acre site in the Cobblestone District.

It’s a much smaller proposal than what was once envisioned.

In 2007, the Senecas proposed a 206-suite, 22-story luxury hotel tower, 90,000 sq.ft. gaming hall and 2500 space parking structure.  Construction on the $333 million project stalled in 2008 due to a sputtering economy leaving a four-story steel skeleton to rust.  Crews have begun dismantling the steel structure to prepare for the new complex that is expected to open in the summer of 2013.

Memphis-based design firm Hnedak Bobo Group was selected in January to create a new casino plan. 

Working in conjunction with Buffalo-based BHNT Architects, Hnedak Bobo and Seneca Gaming officials have held several meetings with neighborhood representatives to discuss how a new casino can best complement surrounding development efforts in the Inner Harbor area.

casino2012c.jpg

^Click to enlarge

From The Buffalo News:

“This new casino will be a national design leader for casinos in urban settings,” said Seneca President Robert Odawi Porter. “Our investment in this facility is our stake in our partnership with Buffalo’s Inner Harbor, the rejuvenation of the Perry Choice Neighborhood, and growth in the Old First Ward and along the Buffalo River. We are all in this together and we will succeed through collaboration.”

Porter has sought to integrate the new casino project into the surrounding community over the past few months, and emphasized that point today. When complete, he said the new casino will replace the current, slots-only casino that opened on the territory in 2007. The new design features a main stone-faced building containing the newest slot games, table games and a small, American-style restaurant and bar facility.

 

The design released today, a casino with restaurant and bar and four-story, 715 car ramp surrounded by parking lots, certainly “complements” the existing surface lots in the neighborhood. 

casinco2012d.jpgHnedak Bobo Group has been a leading strategic design and planning partner for more than 25 of the most recognized Native American Tribes across the United States.  Established in 1979, the firm’s 80-person team located in Memphis, Tennessee, includes professionals in architecture, interior design, master planning, and project/development management.

Seneca333.jpg

Previous $333 million design

About the author  ⁄ WCPerspective

Buffalo and development junkie currently exiled in California.

385 comments
elmdog
elmdog

We caught a break from the weather,” said Cathy Walker, Seneca Gaming president and chief executive officer.

Work on the project began last year. Once the expansion is completed, the hotel portion of the Salamanca gaming and entertainment complex will have 413 rooms.

“This will clearly help us attract more visits from people outside the region,” Walker said.

Outside the development of Seneca Allegany Casino & Hotel, the new wing is the largest construction project to take place in Salamanca in several decades. More than 300 construction workers are on site, most from locally-based companies.

elmdog
elmdog

We caught a break from the weather,” said Cathy Walker, Seneca Gaming president and chief executive officer.

Work on the project began last year. Once the expansion is completed, the hotel portion of the Salamanca gaming and entertainment complex will have 413 rooms.

“This will clearly help us attract more visits from people outside the region,” Walker said.

Outside the development of Seneca Allegany Casino & Hotel, the new wing is the largest construction project to take place in Salamanca in several decades. More than 300 construction workers are on site, most from locally-based companies.

YesSir
YesSir

I heard they just signed Trader Joe's. This place is now going be amazing. Lets go Indians.

YesSir
YesSir

I heard they just signed Trader Joe's. This place is now going be amazing. Lets go Indians.

whatever
whatever

lol, seems I predicted well...

whatever>"I'll predict you'll ignore that question"

Funny how once the success of the temporary casino was pointed out, no further insistence that the new casino is likely to fail. How surprising!

sonyactivision
sonyactivision

Oh goody, another epic sh*tstorm casino thread.

To sum up:

Elitist Wendt Foundation types vs 'Free Marketers',

Wasn't "built to the curb",

Parking parking parking,

Evil gambling vice,

Poverty stricken Buffalo to lose everything,

Everyone will still go to Niagara Falls,

Hotel addition would ruin downtown lodging market,

Senecas won't give Buffalo a penny,

Etc. etc....

sonyactivision
sonyactivision

Oh goody, another epic sh*tstorm casino thread.

To sum up:

Elitist Wendt Foundation types vs 'Free Marketers',

Wasn't "built to the curb",

Parking parking parking,

Evil gambling vice,

Poverty stricken Buffalo to lose everything,

Everyone will still go to Niagara Falls,

Hotel addition would ruin downtown lodging market,

Senecas won't give Buffalo a penny,

Etc. etc....

JimmyJenga
JimmyJenga

The reason there is no hotel and restaurants is because the Seneca's don't want the overhead of maintaining those amenities. The plan is to allow patrons to use their player points at local hotels and restaurants. This can be good for local establishments as long as the Seneca's pay full price and don't force a discount. This will then be bad for all of the operators who don't sign on. President Porter has been quoted in the Buffalo News as saying "hospitality is not our job", he wants to focus solely on the gaming aspect.

As bad as the design is, Porter is the most down to the earth president theyve ever had and this property is better than anything they've done so far (best doesnt always mean good tho).My experience working at Seneca Niagrar has been mixed, but I will say that the amount of Canadian money they bring into our area is astounding, as well as the amount of guests who are still willing to come in from PA and OH, passing by a half dozen casinos, including Seneca Allegheny.

pampiniform
pampiniform

Oh good, I'm glad you replied. I am sure you know that a strawman argument would involve me misrepresenting an argument that you made so that I could easily defeat it. I never misrepresented any argument you made. Calling you out on not living here but coming up with an argument like that is not that. What it is is an example of calling you out on coming up with a statement that sounds good like you did there, but completely ignores the facts of the matter.

I think that what you have is a classic example of the "Buffalo expatriate syndrome." You left here for greener pastures who knows how long ago, but you comment on things like this, as though it actually impacted your daily life, when in fact the only exposure yiou have to an issue like this is when you come back to visit. I have experienced it myself. The longer you spend away from Buffalo, the more idealized it appears in your imagination.

Well let me tell you something, I have worked in this neighborhood. I can remember having to wait to leave until police secured the area when someone got stabbed on the corner of Perry and Lousiana not more than a couple of months ago. I know people who have been robbed walking from the clinic to their cars parked on some of the side streets. Believe when I tell you that nobody is going to walk to this place who actually is going to care if there are a couple of parking lot in the way. Perhaps you may have something relevant to add to the discussion, but if you're going to live in a place like Las Vegas and add comments like that, then don't be surprised if people who live in Buffalo and see the dark underbelly of life here daily call you out on it.

I frankly don't care one way or the other what the casino looks like. It might be nice to have one like they build out in a place like Vegas, but the First Ward of Buffalo is not the same kind of place, and what is going to be built down there is exactly what Buffalo can and will support. And that place will do well, just like the current blue shed does, mark my words.

pampiniform
pampiniform

Oh good, I'm glad you replied. I am sure you know that a strawman argument would involve me misrepresenting an argument that you made so that I could easily defeat it. I never misrepresented any argument you made. Calling you out on not living here but coming up with an argument like that is not that. What it is is an example of calling you out on coming up with a statement that sounds good like you did there, but completely ignores the facts of the matter.

I think that what you have is a classic example of the "Buffalo expatriate syndrome." You left here for greener pastures who knows how long ago, but you comment on things like this, as though it actually impacted your daily life, when in fact the only exposure yiou have to an issue like this is when you come back to visit. I have experienced it myself. The longer you spend away from Buffalo, the more idealized it appears in your imagination.

Well let me tell you something, I have worked in this neighborhood. I can remember having to wait to leave until police secured the area when someone got stabbed on the corner of Perry and Lousiana not more than a couple of months ago. I know people who have been robbed walking from the clinic to their cars parked on some of the side streets. Believe when I tell you that nobody is going to walk to this place who actually is going to care if there are a couple of parking lot in the way. Perhaps you may have something relevant to add to the discussion, but if you're going to live in a place like Las Vegas and add comments like that, then don't be surprised if people who live in Buffalo and see the dark underbelly of life here daily call you out on it.

I frankly don't care one way or the other what the casino looks like. It might be nice to have one like they build out in a place like Vegas, but the First Ward of Buffalo is not the same kind of place, and what is going to be built down there is exactly what Buffalo can and will support. And that place will do well, just like the current blue shed does, mark my words.

JohnMarko
JohnMarko

And - it's convenient how you ignore the fact that of the growth of the debt under your hero bush*

Inherited a massive surplus and left us with a DEPRESSION.

Funny, you guys never once complained about the massive debt then...

JohnMarko
JohnMarko

And - it's convenient how you ignore the fact that of the growth of the debt under your hero bush*

Inherited a massive surplus and left us with a DEPRESSION.

Funny, you guys never once complained about the massive debt then...

JohnMarko
JohnMarko

Yes - yes it is - try learning a little something about design...

Acres and acres of parking does not make for a walkable approachable pedestrian experience. Great for cars, tho.

That's why all urban casinos have parking relegated to the rear or "out of site" while the main buildings are as close as can be to the sidewalks.

JohnMarko
JohnMarko

Yes - yes it is - try learning a little something about design...

Acres and acres of parking does not make for a walkable approachable pedestrian experience. Great for cars, tho.

That's why all urban casinos have parking relegated to the rear or "out of site" while the main buildings are as close as can be to the sidewalks.

JohnMarko
JohnMarko

Since you ask:

The Bush Depression started in 2007/2008 - while bush* was pResdident and due to his and republican policies.

This is what Obama has inherited - and has consistently improved upon.

Fact: Bush was the only pResident since the great Depression to LOOSE jobs on his watch - even before the 2004 election.

Sorry, but no matter how hard you try to run away from prooven FAILED republican policies (for over 30 years now), you can't change the facts...

JohnMarko
JohnMarko

Since you ask:

The Bush Depression started in 2007/2008 - while bush* was pResdident and due to his and republican policies.

This is what Obama has inherited - and has consistently improved upon.

Fact: Bush was the only pResident since the great Depression to LOOSE jobs on his watch - even before the 2004 election.

Sorry, but no matter how hard you try to run away from prooven FAILED republican policies (for over 30 years now), you can't change the facts...

JohnMarko
JohnMarko

Nice strawman argument...

First, I was born and raised in Buffalo, and I know exactly what this area is like - it's a "no mans zone" today - and this abortion of a design only makes that more so. This concept certainly will hamper any efforts to make it a walkable area. You can't seriously be trying to argue that this design is going to improve the area or is a "good" design?

Yes it is a "psychological barrier". This comment is valid in light of the conversation topic of whether this is going to be the "poster boy" of "great urban design" - it is a far cry from a "decent strip mall".

JohnMarko
JohnMarko

Nice strawman argument...

First, I was born and raised in Buffalo, and I know exactly what this area is like - it's a "no mans zone" today - and this abortion of a design only makes that more so. This concept certainly will hamper any efforts to make it a walkable area. You can't seriously be trying to argue that this design is going to improve the area or is a "good" design?

Yes it is a "psychological barrier". This comment is valid in light of the conversation topic of whether this is going to be the "poster boy" of "great urban design" - it is a far cry from a "decent strip mall".

whatever
whatever

lol, how unusual of you to use a straw man argument against things nobody here has said.

Who even implied that all casino operators (or all of any type of business) will never fail at anything? Who said nobody should "ask questions" about anything?

I do see where pampin said the Senecas have succeeded so far.

pampin>"They make a pretty good sized little fortune out of their little blue shed as it stands right now. ... The place has a pretty steady crowd in there now just for slots. I'd feel pretty good about building that place down there if I were them. ..."

That looks very different from claiming all casino operators are always immune from failure.

My reply to cyndrome even said no venture is ever a guaranteed success. I also mentioned there's a big difference between the literally most massive casino/hotel destination complex in the western hemisphere as Foxwoods attempted, compared to what the Senecas would try with a limited expansion of a successful small non-destination-size casino here.

By the way, Rand - I'm curious - do you admit that the small temporary slots-only casino on Michigan Ave has done well?

I'll predict you'll ignore that question.

But won't it be funny if anybody would say the Darwin Martin House attracting 30,000 visitors annually is a success but the small temporary casino drawing 25 times as many at 750,000 is a flop?

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2012/03/27/senecas-unveil-scaled-down-buffalo.html?page=all

"...Opened in 2007, the current temporary Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino underwent two expansion projects, in 2008 and 2010. The property now attracts more than 750,000 visitors a year. By comparison, the Buffalo Sabres are expected to attract 742,000 fans to nearby First Niagara Center this regular season. …"

Does that guarantee a larger-but-still-not-huge casino at the same location will succeed with more slots and some table games? Of course not.

Is there a guarantee every new Wegmans store will succeed? Nope. They closed one a few years ago on Walden Ave in Cheektowaga and didn't replace near that location. Does that mean it's smart to expect that every new supermarket anywhere is likely to fail? Well, people are free to expect that if they want to.

whatever
whatever

lol, how unusual of you to use a straw man argument against things nobody here has said.

Who even implied that all casino operators (or all of any type of business) will never fail at anything? Who said nobody should "ask questions" about anything?

I do see where pampin said the Senecas have succeeded so far.

pampin>"They make a pretty good sized little fortune out of their little blue shed as it stands right now. ... The place has a pretty steady crowd in there now just for slots. I'd feel pretty good about building that place down there if I were them. ..."

That looks very different from claiming all casino operators are always immune from failure.

My reply to cyndrome even said no venture is ever a guaranteed success. I also mentioned there's a big difference between the literally most massive casino/hotel destination complex in the western hemisphere as Foxwoods attempted, compared to what the Senecas would try with a limited expansion of a successful small non-destination-size casino here.

By the way, Rand - I'm curious - do you admit that the small temporary slots-only casino on Michigan Ave has done well?

I'll predict you'll ignore that question.

But won't it be funny if anybody would say the Darwin Martin House attracting 30,000 visitors annually is a success but the small temporary casino drawing 25 times as many at 750,000 is a flop?

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2012/03/27/senecas-unveil-scaled-down-buffalo.html?page=all

"...Opened in 2007, the current temporary Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino underwent two expansion projects, in 2008 and 2010. The property now attracts more than 750,000 visitors a year. By comparison, the Buffalo Sabres are expected to attract 742,000 fans to nearby First Niagara Center this regular season. …"

Does that guarantee a larger-but-still-not-huge casino at the same location will succeed with more slots and some table games? Of course not.

Is there a guarantee every new Wegmans store will succeed? Nope. They closed one a few years ago on Walden Ave in Cheektowaga and didn't replace near that location. Does that mean it's smart to expect that every new supermarket anywhere is likely to fail? Well, people are free to expect that if they want to.

Rand503
Rand503

No, Foxwoods can't be failing. They are casino operators, and as such, they must know their market very well. We must trust them that they know what they are doing. No bank would have lent money to them unless they had a very good business. So the article must be wrong.

Businessmen always know what they are doing and we should trust them without asking questions.

Rand503
Rand503

No, Foxwoods can't be failing. They are casino operators, and as such, they must know their market very well. We must trust them that they know what they are doing. No bank would have lent money to them unless they had a very good business. So the article must be wrong.

Businessmen always know what they are doing and we should trust them without asking questions.

whatever
whatever

The Foxwoods is the largest casino facility in the Western Hemisphere according to that article you mentioned. It's very uspcale with four big hotels, etc.

http://www.buffalonews.com/business/article786095.ece

Except that they both have gambling, Foxwoods doesn't sound similar at all to what the Seneca's Buffalo casino will be - which is modest growth over the small temporary metal casino on Michigan Ave now which has had - sadly, for some who hoped it would fail - very good customer flow since it's been there.

The new one would have more slots and other types of gambling than the temp one, and a nicer indoor setting. But it won't be anywhere near the size or risk of the Seneca's previous plan (and even that previous plan here was much less grandiose and risky than Foxwoods).

That said, no project is ever a guaranteed success. You mentioned Target and Home Depot. Both of those in North Buffalo are both very popular too. I'd bet a lot of residents within a few miles of the Michigan/Perry intersection would welcome either of those being there some day if it ever happened.

medea
medea

I find it interesting the BR was proud to announce KOHL'S which is a [deleted] clothing store! Boo-hoo,the senecas re-nogiated their treaty,,,,,

medea
medea

I find it interesting the BR was proud to announce KOHL'S which is a [deleted] clothing store! Boo-hoo,the senecas re-nogiated their treaty,,,,,

cyndrome
cyndrome

Interesting that in Buff News today, there is article in the business section about the financial implosion of the Foxwoods Casino in Ct. So let's go ahead and build one in Buffalo so we can all enjoy the same fate! The eventual prognosis of the casino site eventually becoming a Home Depot or large smoke shop may be on target. Or maybe a Target?

cyndrome
cyndrome

Interesting that in Buff News today, there is article in the business section about the financial implosion of the Foxwoods Casino in Ct. So let's go ahead and build one in Buffalo so we can all enjoy the same fate! The eventual prognosis of the casino site eventually becoming a Home Depot or large smoke shop may be on target. Or maybe a Target?

brownteeth
brownteeth

Sounds good! I look forward to it.

whatever
whatever

hamp, are you so against this that truth doesn't matter to you?

Isn't the following a total lie from you?

hamp>"Bottom line: the Senecas are not living up to the agreement they initially signed with the state, to build a resort style casino as a tool to create economic development."

Text of the agreement between NYS and the Senecas is here

http://www.sni.org/Files/PDF/gaming.pdf

Where in that does it say the things you're telling this blog's readers it said about a resort style casino or anything like that?

Can you paste here even one sentence at all related to such a condition?

Why make things up?

They were legally able to build the small metal temporary casino they've operated on Michigan Avenue since 2007 with only slot machines. If they want to, they could just leave that as their casino in Buffalo. It's up the them. They also would have been legally able to build a smaller permanent casino if Buffalo's elected officials, mayor and Common Council, hadn't voluntarily sold Fulton Street to them in 2006.

whatever
whatever

pampin>"they'd better be ready for a tough court battle"

Exactly. In the early 2000's, the City of Buffalo's elected officials successfully sued in court to force the Senecas to build the casino in Buffalo instead of in Cheektowaga where the Senecas preferred and were looking for a site.

Now the same city govt would try to stop the same casino which they sued to force to be here in the first place? That sounds almost too crazy for politicians to consider.

whatever
whatever

pampin>"they'd better be ready for a tough court battle"

Exactly. In the early 2000's, the City of Buffalo's elected officials successfully sued in court to force the Senecas to build the casino in Buffalo instead of in Cheektowaga where the Senecas preferred and were looking for a site.

Now the same city govt would try to stop the same casino which they sued to force to be here in the first place? That sounds almost too crazy for politicians to consider.

pampiniform
pampiniform

Provided the city would actually stop this thing, which is unlikely, they'd better be ready for a tough court battle on this one. What grounds would the city actually have to stand on for doing something like that?

pampiniform
pampiniform

Provided the city would actually stop this thing, which is unlikely, they'd better be ready for a tough court battle on this one. What grounds would the city actually have to stand on for doing something like that?

hamp
hamp

Very nice. One of my favorite posts.

hamp
hamp

Very nice. One of my favorite posts.

hamp
hamp

The Senecas do not own the water, electricity and other services that go to their sovereign territory. The City is allowing them to access these services. And yes, if the Senecas want to put up a piece of trash, because "they can" then the city can act in its best interest and shut off their utilities.

If the Senecas work with the city and come up with something better, they get their water. If not, the City can put them out of business. Same thing if the city wants to close down the streets surrounding the casino to block access, they could. And they should.

The City already has the legal authority to do all of this.

No other developer can build a casino at this time, as casinos are not legal in New York State, except if they're on sovereign indian land. This will all change in a few years, when NYS makes casinos legal.

Instead of accepting this piece of junk, the City should wait and cut a much better deal with a private developer, that will build something that does not detract from downtown as the Seneca's current proposal does.

Bottom line: the Senecas are not living up to the agreement they initially signed with the state, to build a resort style casino as a tool to create economic development. They're current proposal is a joke that falls far short of their original commitment.

hamp
hamp

The Senecas do not own the water, electricity and other services that go to their sovereign territory. The City is allowing them to access these services. And yes, if the Senecas want to put up a piece of trash, because "they can" then the city can act in its best interest and shut off their utilities.

If the Senecas work with the city and come up with something better, they get their water. If not, the City can put them out of business. Same thing if the city wants to close down the streets surrounding the casino to block access, they could. And they should.

The City already has the legal authority to do all of this.

No other developer can build a casino at this time, as casinos are not legal in New York State, except if they're on sovereign indian land. This will all change in a few years, when NYS makes casinos legal.

Instead of accepting this piece of junk, the City should wait and cut a much better deal with a private developer, that will build something that does not detract from downtown as the Seneca's current proposal does.

Bottom line: the Senecas are not living up to the agreement they initially signed with the state, to build a resort style casino as a tool to create economic development. They're current proposal is a joke that falls far short of their original commitment.

hamp
hamp

I don't expect much from these folks. Angry people with no taste, and no ethics. A very bad combination.

The City still has some leverage, and it should use it.

They should take a look at the Seneca's original agreement with the state. Didn't the Senecas commit to building a "destination" casino, that would attract people from a distance?

Now, with their gambling hall and McDonalds grille, they'll be sucking money from locals only.

Chris
Chris

This is clearly a mistake brought you to by the same group that brought to live "Biff Tannan's" casino in Niagara Falls. What do you expect?

Chris
Chris

This is clearly a mistake brought you to by the same group that brought to live "Biff Tannan's" casino in Niagara Falls. What do you expect?

hamp
hamp

Where is the City on this? Where is the Planning Department?

Yes this is sovereign territory, but the City still has some cards to play if it chooses to.

The gambling hall will rely on public services like water and sewer. And most likely the Buffalo Police and Fire Departments. The Senecas won't be able to open without some collaboration with the City.

Now is the time for Mayor Brown, the Common Council and others to play hardball.

The proposed building is an affront to the city, and detracts from all the other good things happening downtown. Now is the time to put the breaks on, until a better plan is presented.

If not, pull the plug on their utilities, close off the streets surrounding it, etc. Shut them down, until they start doing whats good for the community.

hamp
hamp

Where is the City on this? Where is the Planning Department?

Yes this is sovereign territory, but the City still has some cards to play if it chooses to.

The gambling hall will rely on public services like water and sewer. And most likely the Buffalo Police and Fire Departments. The Senecas won't be able to open without some collaboration with the City.

Now is the time for Mayor Brown, the Common Council and others to play hardball.

The proposed building is an affront to the city, and detracts from all the other good things happening downtown. Now is the time to put the breaks on, until a better plan is presented.

If not, pull the plug on their utilities, close off the streets surrounding it, etc. Shut them down, until they start doing whats good for the community.

hamp
hamp

The project is awful. And we're not just talking about the "design".

I don't care about the skyline or what fancy materials the place will have.

The point is that with Canalside, Cobblestone District, etc., we are trying to create a dense, attractive urban environment, that can be a destination.

The way the gambling hall is situated on the site is a major setback to this goal. The main feature is an huge, ugly parking lot. This detracts from the area, and will not draw people.

Exactly what about that do you like???

hamp
hamp

The project is awful. And we're not just talking about the "design".

I don't care about the skyline or what fancy materials the place will have.

The point is that with Canalside, Cobblestone District, etc., we are trying to create a dense, attractive urban environment, that can be a destination.

The way the gambling hall is situated on the site is a major setback to this goal. The main feature is an huge, ugly parking lot. This detracts from the area, and will not draw people.

Exactly what about that do you like???

nyc
nyc

do i win a prize?

nyc
nyc

do i win a prize?

Bison716
Bison716

I ACTUALLY LIKE THE DESIGN! We all knew that the hotel feature was going to be missing from the plans so why is that a surprise. The 4 story garage and the 5-6 story Casino itself is setup waaaaaay better than the previous renderings for the site. I do miss the idea of adding to our skyline with the hotel feature, but who's to say that this won't be added on the future by another developer or the Seneca's themselves. I can't wait what the improvements will look like in that area, especially with the $1 million in grants to help the surrounding area. Who else does this?

Bison716
Bison716

I ACTUALLY LIKE THE DESIGN! We all knew that the hotel feature was going to be missing from the plans so why is that a surprise. The 4 story garage and the 5-6 story Casino itself is setup waaaaaay better than the previous renderings for the site. I do miss the idea of adding to our skyline with the hotel feature, but who's to say that this won't be added on the future by another developer or the Seneca's themselves. I can't wait what the improvements will look like in that area, especially with the $1 million in grants to help the surrounding area. Who else does this?

whatever
whatever

rand>"those who are trying to label us hypocrites for first complaining that they had too many hotel rooms and restaurants and now they don't have enough and you explain the position well."

Huh? I didn't/wouldn't assume you (or IrishDave) were among those who once complained about the possibility of the Seneca's casino including non-gambling business components. If you didn't, then there's no inconsistency. There's no basis for you to infer that I was calling any particular individuals hypocrites. I didn't.

I did dare to mention the Damned-if-they-do-Damned-if they-don't nature of this complaint because - and this isn't disputable (I'm sure I could link to it, if you doubt me) - it was a big part of some vocal people's complaints years ago that any non-gambling business aspects the Senecas offered as part of a casino on their property would unfairly compete with other Buffalo businesses. I didn't at all say you were one of those who back then said that.

Now this week, a big part of complaints on here seems to be that the Seneca's won't offer enough non-gambling aspects - restaurants, shops, etc. - as part of the casino on their property.

While it isn't about hypocrisy necessarily, it does go to show they can't please everyone when there's such opposing complaints. -shrug-

Same with the greenery being too little vs. too much.

I do at least understand the complaint about not building to the sidewalk/curb, while also understanding reasons for sometimes not doing that.

© 2014 Hyperlocal Media. All Rights Reserved.
best anti wrinkle cream reviews anti aging supplements dr oz testosterone supplement side effects life extension skin restoring phytoceramides with lipowheatlifecell anti aging cream free trial skin and hair vitamins age defying cream reviews